What Works / What Don't

[tx river rat]

The foam is in the upper part of the blade so you submerge like a knife but as you go thrue the stroke it roll and gives you more buoyancy . It is fixed to work with your stroke.
The big blade will be ok because you pull as hard and fast as you need to ,An easy slow cadence wont tire you anymore than any other paddle.
Ron

 

[seedtick]

whether submerged vertically, horizontally, or any angle in between, bouyancy is the same

 

[tx river rat]

Folks a lot smarter than me designed and say it works.Ron

 

[tx river rat]

Seedtick
your right on the button on the buoyancy.
You got me thinking about why this paddle works. And I think I have it worked out .
Like a lot of principles and theory ,in a pure form they are accurate but when you factor in other things it changes some things.
Lets take two paddles. One with a solid blade and one that has foam inserted
The blade design on the foam filled blade is a narrow wedge getting thinner as it goes toward the tip of the paddle, the deeper the blade goes in the water the more buoyancy you have
till it is submerged.
Ok the solid paddle sinks in the water if it is greater than the 8 lbs plus a cubic foot.
It is easy to bury the paddle but it gains weight as you complete the stroke and start picking it up out of the water. If the paddle is submerged it will feel lighter than picking it up into the air.
The foam blade has one thing that was not figured into the equation,the weight of the blade, so basically two other faactors come into play ,the depth of the blade in the water and having the foam matched so you have close to a neutral buoyancy.
Go threw a paddle stroke ,you bury the blade part way as you do the reach then as you come threw the stroke the paddle starts getting flat which submerges the whole blade picking up all your boyancy which makes it lighter as you come out of the water.
This is probably not a very clear post but think about the stroke and the wedge being buried to a different depth in the stroke and the nutral ,or close to nutral boyancy at the normal stroke depth.
Wheeeeeee that taxed my little pea brain.
Ron

 

[oldsparkey]

Seedtick

Lets take two paddles. One with a solid blade and one that has foam inserted
The blade design on the foam filled blade is a narrow wedge getting thinner as it goes toward the tip of the paddle, the deeper the blade goes in the water the more buoyancy you have
till it is submerged.
Ok the solid paddle sinks in the water if it is greater than the 8 lbs plus a cubic foot.
It is easy to bury the paddle but it gains weight as you complete the stroke and start picking it up out of the water. If the paddle is submerged it will feel lighter than picking it up into the air.

Wheeeeeee that taxed my little pea brain.
Ron

Ron... Now you have me confused...... :?

1... The paddle with the foam in it is more buoyant then a solid wood paddle , That I can understand.
2... The foam paddle you said will gain buoyancy while it is being submerged till it is all the way ( submerged) in the water. The buoyancy would increase as it is lowered in the water and when all of it is there then it would be at its peak of buoyancy , not less.
Think of it as trying to submerge an partially air filled inner-tube , as more is placed underwater the more it wants to rise.
3... The solid wood paddle has a natural buoyancy to it or else it would sink when left unattended in the water , they float. None of mine have sunk .....So Far.
Plus ...they sure seem to be lighter when they are in the water doing a paddling stroke then when they are out of the water. I think it might be because the weight is replaced with a slight positive buoyancy of that portion of the paddle which is displaced the water.

Chuck.

 

[tx river rat]

Chuck
we are saying the same thing
When you use a high angle stroke with a double blade ,you reach forward and start digging the blade in the water ,as you pull back the blade should get deeper, then as you start coming out of the water the blade is flat as you lift. It is different than a canoe stroke where you dont clear the water at all, are very little ,where with a double blade high stroke the paddle should be higher than your head..
The normal yak blade has very little buoyancy the foam filled is just a little over neutral

 

[oldsparkey]

Since I use the canoe paddles you had me confused. My kayak paddles went north to that fergin country up there past Yankee Land called Canada with the two boats.
You are correct the canoe paddle is a world of difference from the kayak paddle and even in the way to use them.

I guess the best way to say it is like this...... Ya want it , get it , use it.
Then we expect a report about it , the good , the bad and even the Ugly. Especially since we would like to know or we could be the ugly part of it without a report. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Chuck..........

 

[oldsparkey]

I know I will get in trouble for saying this ....BUT.

With a kayak paddle you do have more paddle in the water but the part that is out is something to see. Watching kayakers out on the water , the 1st thing I see in the distance is a windmill coming at me then as they get closer I can tell it is someone with a kayak paddle.

Paddling along with them that is one noisy dam paddle it splashes everytime it is put in the water and there is no way to just slip along nice and quiet , especially if you do not want to be noticed or scare any really spooky wildlife. I really don't think a person using one could slip up on a blind and deaf person much less a road killed armadillo some buzzard dropped by the river.
My guess is that is OK since when you put two kayakers together there chatter covers those splashes from the paddles so there is no reason to be quiet or to use a quiet paddle.

As I said , I will get into trouble for posting this but the three of us .... I , Me and especially Myself like to ease down or up a river and see how quiet we can be. The rewards are great since there is a lot of wildlife and stuff to see ..... even at times some females sunbathing in there birthday suits at the rivers edge while having a snack and enjoying the river , shame on them , how disgusting while there boy friends ( if there are any ) are out of sight. :roll:

OK ... All you with the dirty minds out there ...I am talking about Doe Deer down at the river for a drink or some nice river vegetation to munch on as a snack. ( Dam , Ya have to explain everything on here )

 

[Kayak Jack]

You can insert and remove a kayak paddle silently. But, you cannot be applying thrust to it during insertion of removal - only when it is submerged. And then, you can apply only lighter thrust, or the paddle will cavitate and make noise.

I insert a blade from a high angle, and as the boat is moving along, I pivot the paddle so it is not moving along in he water, but pivots over a point. Once submerged, apply thrust. Near the end of the stroke, reduce and top thrust, and pull the paddle straight from the water without letting it drag. Turning the blade 90 degrees so it slices through the water during withdrawal.

You, anyway I can't, make fast progress during this procedure. I swap speed for stealth. (NOTE: I'd swap speed for a Hershey bar, if I could ever find someone who would deal. HINT HINT, BK)

 

[oldsparkey]

Down here Hershey bars melt due to the heat so we take Vienna's , the better choice. Nothing bothers them.

Thar ya go Jack a wide open door for you. :lol: Yep ...I know this is the Serious Section and Vienna's are some seriously good chow , if you are a southerner. :wink:

 

[tx river rat]

Look at this

http://www.wernerpaddles.com/wernertv/i ... o=products
Ron

 

[Kayak Jack]

<SNIP> Vienna's are some seriously good chow , if you are a southerner. :wink:

Nuff sed.

 

[beekeeper]

What Works:
1/4" plywood (pine) or 9mm luan are srong enough for my boats without fiberglassing.

What Don't:
The verdict is still out for 5.2mm luan without fiberglass. I'm leaning to "not", especially for rough use. I only use it for sides. It is light. It weighs 10lbs.(bath room scales) per sheet less than the above.

I asked who has weighed their boats and what did they weigh. Only four people responded. With all the talk about light weight builds, I had hoped for more. How much does a gallon of epoxy weigh?


beekeeper

 

[lil'moe]

Boat weight- another open ended question.
I have a 3 rib UJ piro- it weighs 48 lbs. Made of the 5.2 mm luan, with 4 oz, tight weave cloth, inside and out.
I have a 4 rib UJ piro - it weighs 45 lbs. made from the same stuff, with a bit lighter gunnels and inwales. Both are 15' 8" long, glassed inside and out. The 4 rib was the second boat, so it probably has a little more finess with the glass.
I have a JEM free Laker, nade of the 5.2 mm luan, with the glass inside and out. It weighs in at 54 lbs.
All have graphite on the bottom, and show use this summer-but never fail to attract attention on the water, and at the launch sites, and have been flagged over in our small town, so a traveler could get a better look, and info where I got the plans. Its all good!
I' m thinking maybe a 13' piro, maybe mad like a decked canoe for the other half. She has been using the 3 rib boat,and as expected, get a long better with more weight than just herself in it. I force myself to look out for her, and let her carry the extra "stuff" to made her boat handle better!!

 

[beekeeper]

Thanks lil'moe for your reply. I find it interesting that the 4 rib boat weighs less. I don't know how much lighter the gunnels are, but seems to me the extra rib would cancel those saveings. Your reduction of the epoxy seems to be where the saveings occured. How long and wide is the Laker? Does it have decks?


beekeeper

 

[Kayak Jack]

On the subject of weight, it is (almost) always a compromise. I suppose, we could build our boats of boiler plate and just quit worrying about rocks n such. But then, lifting them would not add to the fun and enjoyment of owning them.

On gunnels (gunwales), I opted to not add a strip along the outside edge. I figured there was sufficient strength using a 4" strip of 1/8" plywood on the inside (formally known as an inwale), with spacers in between the gunnel and the boat's skin. Stress on gunnels is normally in the vertical plane, not horizontally trying to squeeze or stretch them. Thwarts hold gunnels in place sideways to prevent them squeezing in or ballooning out. So, for a given weight of wood on the gunnels, a taller thinner strip provides more strength than does a square one.

Stress on a gunnel is at its most in the center of the boat. So if you have to splice wood to make a strip long enough, don't splice in the middle. You can use a long strip for the midsection, and shorter ones for the ends. I overlaid a 2' long piece of 1/8" plywood over my splices for extra strength. Shorter ones are likely sufficient.

Spacers between the inwale and the skin of the boat form a box beam for even more strength. This is a "ventilated gunnel" that allows water to exit when a boat is laid on its side. It also provides points for lashing down gear. For spacers, a good start is to get a strip of wood about 2" wide, 1/8" thick, and plenty long. I cut triangles from this strip of 45-45-90 degrees. These are easy to mark off using a combination square, wastes no wood, and are fairly light weight. To lighten mine even more, I drilled a large hole in the center of each triangle.

I spaced them evenly along the upper and lower edges of the gunnel, with about 2" in between. Triangles on the bottom are in between triangles on the top. This forms a lightweight, strong box beam that has served very well through a lot of misuse.

 

[oldsparkey]

On gunnels (gunwales), I opted to not add a strip along the outside edge. I figured there was sufficient strength using a 4" strip of 1/8" plywood on the inside (formally known as an inwale), with spacers in between the gunnel and the boat's skin. .

My understanding is that one use for the outside strip is considered an sacrificial strip to prevent wear on the side of the boat especially if it will be tied up at a dock.
I do know that on the boats I have made the outside strip does make the boat conform to the shape I want. A lot of the times the inside strip will make it almost correct but there is still a slight wave to the side which the outer strip corrects. Personally , I like that extra strip there , especially when car topping it , a lot more surface area to take the load and protect the boat.

 

[Kayak Jack]

An outwale is a sacrificial strip, and one time in all my paddling, I could have used that. Since I don't tie up to docks, it hasn't been of much need. An extra grip to hang on to for loading/unloading is a handy thing. If I load a boat alone, it's kind of a "controlled crash" operation as I lower (drop?) the boat onto the rack. Once it's down and strapped into place, I usually say something like, "Cheated death again!"

 

[lil'moe]

The laker is basically Matt's (JEM) free plan, but I cut 1-1/4" off each point onthe ends. That left the boat to be 12' 10-1/2" overall. Her, if the boat has no sail, or motor (even electric), it doesn't have to be registered if it is 13' or less in lenght. I didn't want to get into a p---ing contest with a DNR official, so I cut off the sharp point to be sure. It is 26" wide, with the vee bottom, and the standard cockpit and decks. I " borrowed " some of Hairymick's ideas and put a box in for a rear hatch cover, a small "glove box" in the cockpit, thigh braces and simple carry handles. The decks are as the plan shows, attached with a 3/8 x 1-1/2"solid wood for a "shear clamp". It always seems to draw attention, whether in the truck, on the bank, or in the water. It's all good.

 

[beekeeper]

Thanks lil'moe. Your boats sounds nice. Every body likes wooden boats, but they buy alu. or plastic. :?

Jack I know this is politically incorrect, sacrilegious, and would never be on you boat, but the outside chine logs are handy for turning the boat over.

Weighed my pirogue today (bathroom scales) 69 lbs.

beekeeper