What Works / What Don't

[oldsparkey]

Beekeeper asked...........
1...How many boats have you built? What was your favorite/least favorite one to build? Why?

12 to date. I will have to go with the serviceability of them since I enjoy making boats. Each one offers problems to overcome but for me that is part of the fun and especially when the boat is done and I know I did it the right way.
My favorite are the canoes for looks and the canoes with the pirogues ( open boats ) for serviceability on the water. The kayaks were the raciest looking and a blast to paddle but hard to get in and out of.
Can't say about the Bayou Skiff since it has not gone on a camping trip due to this heat down here , holding off for cooler weather with it. Besides it reminds me of the 1st boat I had when I was a child and I loved that skiff. I spent a lot of hours in it having a ball , it did get used , used a lot. Actually it was the hardest to make , not in the construction of it , with the amount of room it took in a cramped working area to make.
I should not judge them as a group since each one in there own right works really good for the reason I built them.

2...What part of boat building do you like the most/least?

Actually I enjoy all of the steps when building a boat. It is fun thinking about what and how to do it and watching it come together as the work progresses on it. The little extra touches are the desert for me when making one and the meat an potatoes part is the fiber glassing. Not a whole lot of fun but enjoyable watching it become a part of the boat. Disappointing since I know the build is coming to the end.
:lol: I have been told by some of the guys that I paddle with that the part I enjoy the most is making the boats and that paddling them is not that big of a deal with me..... I think they are right. It is addictive taking some flat pieces of wood , cutting them and watching them become a serviceable boat that even looks good.

3...I like planning and the woodwork. I don't like finishing (paint/varnish)

The varnishing is the final step which is exciting to know the boat will be ready for the water but also disappointing in a way because everything is done when the varnish dries. The there is nothing to think about and the Should I do this or Should I do that while building them is gone.

Chuck.......

 

[jdupre']

Here's the measurements, Ron.

Pirogue: @ 2" waterline width 27" length 14' 4"

Swamper @ 2" waterline width 23.5" length 14' 11"

From all that I've read and what little experience I've had, I would guess that the narrower beam and slim entry and exit account for the majority of the increase in performance of the Swamper. In paddle boats, narrow beam trumps most anything else you can reasonably do.

 

[tx river rat]

JD
Thanks
Just my humble thought ,10% should just about be right, length of water line,9 inch gain.
3.5 in beam and the v bottom.
My guess is the width is your biggest gain,then the v bottom then the water line length.

I believe in the length of the water line a lot since I started building 16 ft boats,my next one will be 18 ft.
Ron

 

[jdupre']

Ron, just don't go overboard on the length. After about 16ft of waterline, the resistance on the increased wetted surface starts to work against you for touring. You CAN go faster with a longer waterline, but you have to use more force. With short waterlines and less wetted surface, it's sometimes easier paddling at slower speeds. It's a theory of mine as to the glowing reports of the 13 and 14' Lakers. Less length equates to less waterline which equals easier cruising at moderate speeds.

 

[tx river rat]

JD
I hear what your saying, but I built the Laker 13 then I built the Cuda which is a Laker 15 5 and asymetrical ,There isnt a comparison in speed and stability The Cuda will wins hands down in cruising also . Then I went to the duck which has the water line of most 17 to 18 ft kayaks
with it squared off nose ,now that thing will fly and so easy to paddle and keep at a cruse speed
it is unreal.
I have also paddled a friends 18 ft marathon boat that is 28 inches in beam had no problem there.
I agree with you in what you say but I just haven't hit that wall yet , for me that wall will be somewhere between an 18 and a 20 ft boat. The North wind a boat I will build before long is a copy of the Sea wind ,the boat verlan Kruger paddled 100,000 miles and it is 17 ft 2 inches. The Sea Wind is probably the best cruising boat made.
I have started the Cuda , a Laker that is asymetrical and 18 ft long but the water line is not but about 6 inches longer than the Duck.
Dang there is so much to try and learn.

 

[beekeeper]

Here's the measurements, Ron.

Pirogue: @ 2" waterline width 27" length 14' 4"

Swamper @ 2" waterline width 23.5" length 14' 11"

From all that I've read and what little experience I've had, I would guess that the narrower beam and slim entry and exit account for the majority of the increase in performance of the Swamper. In paddle boats, narrow beam trumps most anything else you can reasonably do.

More questions:
Do you know what the waterline measurements (length, width, and draft) might be for each with a 250lb. load?
For your use, is the draft of the swamper ok? Can you tell a differance?
What is your seat height in each?
Could you describe the differances in secondary stability between the two?

beekeeper

 

[jdupre']

Bee, I could only guess at the draft. I figure the Swamper has about 3 1/2" to 4" draft @ 250lbs. and the pirogue about 3". I figure each gains about 2" in beam and about 4-5 " in waterline @ 250 lbs. Since I pared down my camping gear, 250 lbs is probably a pretty good guess for max payload for a 2-3 day camping trip. That's including my scrawny butt. When piper and I went this summer, the Swamper handled that easily. She didn't seem strained or sluggish, probably was a bit more stable sitting lower in the water.

Joey

 

[beekeeper]

Joey
I would add 100+lbs. to that. Would the Swamper still have a draft? :roll: :lol:

beekeeper

 

[jdupre']

WHHHooooop WHHHooooop! DIVE! DIVE! Up periscope. :lol:

No really. I think the Swamper would take an extra 100 lbs. Maybe 5" of draft leaving 3" of freeboard. Definetly doable. Check out the pictures of Tx River Rat's TV with about 500lbs in it. Riding low but still ridin'.

 

[beekeeper]

What works:
My pirogue drifts around from the wind less than my other boats. I belive it is because it has less rocker.

What Don't:
My pirogue drifts too much in the wind. I belive it is because it is not decked.

Question:
Would it be worth while to deck only the front to reduce the turning or would both ends have to be? Most times I enter my boat from the side, but sometimes I have to walk out the end onto the bank. I could use the stern end to exit by if it was not decked.

beekeeper

 

[tx river rat]

If you deck just one end your weather cocking will be terrible.
Ron

 

[tx river rat]

I have heard this quoted from some folks that are pretty good that on a 15 ft boat you sit about an inch deeper for every 100 lbs over what the boat was built for.
Ron

 

[jdupre']

JD, I think a light anchor with a quick tie off would probably work best for the wind. I throw mine over the windward side and let the boat drift out with me facing the bank. The handiest thing I found is one of those 1" spring clamps we all have so many of. Clamp it to a convenient spot, throw out the anchor and figure 8 the rope around the handles. The rope comes right off with a couple of twirls. Easy.

It takes so little power of any kind to move a pirogue that you probably couldn't hope to guess which end of the pirogue to deck. You ever notice that if you want to really stop a pirogue in any reasonable distance you actually have to back paddle and stop all motion? If there's even a little movement left, the boat will just keep on gliding past your fishing spot.

 

[beekeeper]

If you deck just one end your weather cocking will be terrible.
Ron

Why? Only the bow end is drifting around. If decked, wouldn't the wind have less verticle surface to push on?

beekeeper

 

[beekeeper]

I have heard this quoted from some folks that are pretty good that on a 15 ft boat you sit about an inch deeper for every 100 lbs over what the boat was built for.
Ron

How can the pirogue and the swamper be effected ("sit about an inch deeper...") the same? The footprint and side angles are different on each.

beekeeper

 

[Kayak Jack]

The Northwind is actually a couple inches narrower than Verlen's Sea Wind, I believe. Matt knows for sure.

 

[tx river rat]

North Wind is the same as the sea wind 28.5 inches the South wind is built narrower
Ron

 

[jdupre']

I have heard this quoted from some folks that are pretty good that on a 15 ft boat you sit about an inch deeper for every 100 lbs over what the boat was built for.
Ron

How can the pirogue and the swamper be effected ("sit ABOUT an inch deeper...") the same? The footprint and side angles are different on each.

beekeeper

Emphasis on "ABOUT".

JD, that's probably just a general rule to give some idea about changes in draft. Nobody can tell exactly how much 100 lbs extra will affect draft without actually putting that specific boat in water and measuring it. Any changes in flair, length, beam , entrance and exit angles and weight affect the shape of the waterline and therefore the draft.

Joey

 

[Kayak Jack]

<SNIP> Nobody can tell exactly how much 100 lbs extra will affect draft without actually putting that specific boat in water and measuring it. <SNIP>

Right, accurate measurement is where field estimates should come from.

 

[tx river rat]

You are right ,but like they say we are not doing brain surgery here , I think they call it rule of thumb.
Ron