Started the Sasquatch 14 x 30 build.

[oldsparkey]

Not to change the subject. :lol: :lol: :lol:

I called Raka yesterday ... http://www.raka.com/ ... and talked to John , ( Larry is the owner ) it was about 1:30 P.M. John wanted to know what I was up to ... told him I'm making one sweet canoe and want it as light as I can make it.

1... Placed a order with him for some 3.25 glass , Tight Woven , 60 inch ,with the yardage I need for the outside of the hull on the canoe.
2... Some 4 oz for inside the canoe. ( Yep.. Matt doing 4 oz on the inside , not 2 oz , call it up to a temporary lapse of sanity on trying to stay light weight. )
3... A 6 Quart kit of epoxy , medium speed.
4... Pine four , 16 oz.
5... Glass Bubbles ( those infamous glass bubbles :lol: ) 1 qt.
6... a 60 cc syringe to do the fillets with , this will give me two of them to use. One to use while the other is taking a acetone bath. I can rotate them on the work.
7... A bag of graphite for later since I'm low on it in the shop.

5:30 today ( the next day ) the box with everything arrives here at the house and I thought the UPS Driver was only stopping by here for supper. :lol:

Life is SWEET.........

Chuck

 

[Kayak Jack]

Haircut analogy matches exactly. A wet bubble won't blow around.

When you buy pigment to add to epoxy, it comes already mixed into epoxy. Adding the bubbles to epoxy would both contain them so they would not blow around, and also have them in the medium in which they will be used. Then just add hardener like we do when we use pigmented epoxy.

Now, there may well be another medium in which we could stabilize the bubbles. One that will mix with epoxy and not mess things up.

 

[oldsparkey]

Jack , a haircut is nothing like the glass bubbles , hair is NOT GLASS , the bubbles are.
If you want to find out if they can be mixed in anything but the epoxy then build a boat and give it a try and let us know. You might create something new for doing fillets. Sometimes to find the answer you have to understand and then use the item.
Personally , I will mix mine the way/amount I want in the fillets , builders desecration , choice is good.
A pre mix would not offer that choice unless you had some spare ones to add to it but then why would you need a pre mix. :?

I have found that after the bubbles are mixed in they don't blow around. :roll:
Pigment is different then the bubbles , the pigment is a liquid , the bubbles aren't they are glass and a dry item.

YES... You mix them in the resin and then add the hardener , if you mix them in the resin and hardener together :evil: then the whole mess would set up before you got the 1 st drop on the boat , it takes some time to mix the bubbles in the resin ( actually it is easier to fold them in the to actually mix as in stirring) and you sure as Hell don't want to rush the job.

Again , I can't think of any other medium they could be in other then the resin since you sure (anyway I don't ) want any contamination in my epoxy mix.

Right now I think we are beating a Dead Horse a really Dead Horse that the buzzards have already devouried.
You will never , ever , no way , understand what it is like to work with them till you get some and try it for yourself. We can hypotenuse , speculate , guess and wounder all year long but till a person actually works with them then it is nothing more then guess work and ...What Ifs on there part.
Almost like trying to explain a Camel to a blind person.

Dam , I'm Sorry I ever said anything about them on here , I should of keep my mouth shut and just used them in silence like I have on the other boats.

Chuck.

 

[keith]

chuck dont be sorry, you may have found something. I would think that epoxy and woodflour will mix/ bond as one and be structural and that glass would nt mix and not be as strong. if its half as lite, it would be half as strong. we're waiting on your test results, be patient with us. later keith

 

[Jimmy W]

My question now is, with what kind of a liquid could these balloons be wetted to prevent floating, and still mix with epoxy?

I figure that you could use acetone until it evaporated, but it would thin the epoxy some.
Never tried it though. Like Chuck said, I just mixed them carefully out of the wind.

Jimmy

 

[Jimmy W]

Dam , I'm Sorry I ever said anything about them on here , I should of keep my mouth shut and just used them in silence like I have on the other boats.

Chuck.

Chuck, you aint been silent. You wrote about them in the tips.
http://www.neilbank.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=602

Jimmy

 

[a Bald Cypress]

g

Never having used them, I probably should not be jumping in the middle [or end] of this discussion BUT.

To prevent the bubbles from floating away how about:

Putting some in a zip lock bag, then just a bit of resin close the bag and mix it up. Then when you wanted to use them, they would be held together and the amount of resin you use to "wet them down" in the bag should not be a factor in the measureing mix.


Don't know if that would work or not.

I may order some with my epoxy and try it.

 

[oldsparkey]

The inside is tack welded , now the outside is curing and it is starting to look like a canoe.

My guess is that the glass bubbles could be mixed in a Zip Lock but it will take some doing inside a bag. It would be like trying to catch smoke if you are not careful.
I'm going to start the fillets in a day or so when I flip the canoe back over and I'm going to mix them the way I have in the past. Not that I'm against trying anything new , just know what works for me.

Chuck.

 

[JEM]

Chuck you screw up!!!

The part with the opening is supposed to face up!!!

:shock:

 

[oldsparkey]

Chuck you screw up!!!

The part with the opening is supposed to face up!!!

:shock:

NOT... I REPEAT.... NOT ... If you are paddling in the rain and it rains a lot here. I did find paddling it the other way ... For Right Now .... the darn thing leaks like a spaghetti sieve. Guess I need to do more to it. :lol:

Chuck.

 

[oldsparkey]

If you will notice the way the bow is ( the stern is identical) it is not rounded like a manufactured canoe.
I'm thinking by using the sander I can remove the sharp angles and round the bow ( and stern) out to look like a store bought canoe.

They both are epoxied and after I get the inside filleted (all the seams ) then fillet the bow and stern on the inside to match the fillets on the seams.

Then come outside and sand them nice and uniformed , next epoxy fillet the areas on the outside that have been rounded off like I did to the tip of the paddles I have made.

Extra protection with the bead of epoxy and wood flour running along the bow and stern , should make it almost bomb proof.
Like dangermouse01 did to his SOT ( JEM Watercraft Wadefish 2.0 ) on the bow and stern.

Chuck.
Just thinking a few steps ahead on what to do. I do want this one to be nice looking and not like the rest I have made. :wink:

 

[JEM]

Chuck,

Doesn't sound like too much trouble for the benefit they provide. Would you say they are lighter than graphite?

 

[oldsparkey]

Chuck,

Doesn't sound like too much trouble for the benefit they provide. Would you say they are lighter than graphite?

Good question.
I have never weighed them on a scale. If I would be able to locate the wife's food scale I could give it t try but only God knows where it is.

As a guesstimation right off hand I would say .. Yes .. they are lighter. I draw that conclusion from the two bags Raka sent me.

Not being scientific in the measuring , I took the two bags and attached them to a coat hanger , one on each end.
The glass bubbles are almost twice the volume (amount) of the graphite , the graphite being almost haft the volume of the bubbles.

The graphite was the one that tipped the scale in it's favor or disfavor on being heavier.

Chuck.

 

[john the pom]

When Jack said "Looks nice, Chuck.. Where are you going to mount the bowsprit with the bare chested, flaxen tressed, Bambii The Gymnast underneath?"
What he really meant was are you gonna buy one of them inflatable- bare chested, flaxen tressed, Bambii The Gymnast underneath your decks like he does... He says its for floatation :lol: and is ever so careful not to leave limbs hanging outta his hatchways 8)

 

[oldsparkey]

What he really meant was are you gonna buy one of them inflatable- bare chested, flaxen tressed, Bambii The Gymnast underneath your decks like he does... He says its for floatation :lol: and is ever so careful not to leave limbs hanging outta his hatchways 8)

Jack purchases them by the GROSS (Pun intended). :evil:

Getting back to canoes...........

Matt.........

I took the antique bathroom scales out to the shop and weighed myself ( another personal matter not for discussion) :lol: Then picked up the canoe and checked the weight again.

As Mary ( the youngest daughter ) likes to say .... WooHoo ...... Or the wife likes to say .... COOL. ( The language from the kids at UCF is rubbing off on her ( University of Central Florida).

It looks like I might beat your 33 pounds for the lightest weigh the canoe can be made and be safe to paddle. Remember only the panels are together , welded along the seams on both sides with epoxy as the pictures show. Plus I have the outside rub rails on the canoe.

Now the rest will determine the total weight when done but it sure looks like it will be lower then the 33 pounds.

Darn ... silly me .. I forgot to say what it weighs at this time and moment in construction.......

A Cool ..... 17 pounds. Yep.. 14 x 30 together waiting to the filleted on the seams , then glassed and a seat with two thwarts added. After all I have almost half of the weight of the canoe to work with to get to 33 pounds .... or 16 pounds to play with.

Starting to do the subtracation.........
The wood and cain seat is 2 pounds 3 ounces for the 34 inch one and I would trim 8 inches off it since each cross member is 34 inches and there are 4 of them. Only need then at 30 inches or less depending on placement in the canoe. Plus ...I'm sure the glass bubbles in the fillets will help to save a lot of weight while keeping the seams strong. :wink:

Chuck.

 

[dangermouse01]

A Cool ..... 17 pounds.

Chuck;
I think every time you mention the weight of this build you should also include an asterisk next to it. You are building it out of special order 3mm ply, and Matt advertises his kits with 4mm. Not much a a weight difference between the two, but enough that it should be noted.

And just think with the asterisk next to it, you will have something in common with Barry Bond's home run record and Dale Jr's last NASCAR victory. :lol:

DM
mike

 

[JEM]

Chuck's life is one big *.

I was thinking about adding a 3mm panel option to the kit. But I want to see how Chuck's boat shakes out.

 

[oldsparkey]

Mike...

It's nothing more then a friendly challenge between Matt and myself , when he said 33 pounds.

I said less and the gauntlet was tossed on the ground. So the next thing I know I ordering the kit and accepting the challenge.
No problem on this end , there was enough in the checkbook the wife never knew it was missing for the kit. :lol: ( It's My checkbook , not hers unless she snitches ( Borrows ) it without my knowledge to go shopping ) :roll:

No speculation on my part , no guessing , or wondering or what ifs in the construction .... Just doing it and posting the results. The best way to say that something works like it should. Then I can say ... This is good , why not try it.

Besides I did not have anything else to do this summer so why not have some fun , build a boat , do some things differently but almost like before ... If you understand that then you are in as bad of shape as I am.

The up side .... We get to find out how light it can be made (someone might do one lighter) for now by a person who does not think inside the box or should I say canoe. :?

Either way I will have a canoe to paddle that will make my cardiologist happy because of the light weight.

Now as far as the "asterisk" They remind me of the phone company and that is not a happy thought around here with the way they are boosting there prices. About three gnats eyebrows from telling them to shove it and just use cell phones , prepaid ones. :twisted:

Chuck.
Hell ... Mike .. Excuse me .... I meant to say dangermouse01 .....You know I'm not normal when it comes to boats and camping or having some fun. I do march to a different drummer. :lol:

 

[oldsparkey]

I had to sit back and have a cold Bud , while I waited for the wind to die down. This way I can get Sassy out on the horses without her blowing off them for this picture.

For Dangermous01. ******* I think he like the asterisk's and must work for the phone company but to keep everyone happy.........:roll:

The reason for me being carefully about the wind ..Sassy only weighs 17 pounds right now and I did not want her being blown off the horses. It was a struggle getting her out there and taking the picture , must of been all the weight.:lol:

Anyway ... right now she is sure looking like a canoe. The two orange things are "C" Clamps at the center line with some copper wire between them to act as a thwart and add support. They only come into action when I move her and the rest of the time the line is slack.

I did not take them into consideration on the total weight for Sassy at this time , just counted them into the total picture.

Chuck........
Today was a yard day to keep the BOSS happy . :evil: Since I have a meeting this Saturday and a BBQ about planning some paddling down the river , some river , at a later date. Two boat building days shot in the rear. :lol:
The homemade Beef Stew I stared at 10 this morning should make the Boss happy if not really hungry when she gets home. :lol:

Just like the batch I did a while back , a preson can't live on sawdust and epoxy. :lol:

 

[oldsparkey]

Not to Hi-Jack or Lo-Jack this thread but before you ask........ It is either of the things it is called below. It does require some care and not using a slow cooker or Crock Pot , Just a large pot on a burner on low heat after the 1st few steps are done.

Vegetable soup or a beefy vegetable soup or a wet beef stew , your call.
I start this at 11 AM or earlier and it is ready around 5 PM.

1.... Start out with a large pot , really large , add some olive oil , your choice on the amount. ( I make sure the bottom is covered) Then when it is hot add about 1 1/2 pounds of beef stew chunks , or more depending on your tastes.
Throw in some salt an pepper and brown the meat.
( a few of your favorite spices does not hurt anything at this time )

2....When the meat is browned all around add a couple cups of water , now the work beings. Before the water is added , if there is some brown on the bottom of the pot , then a slash of white wine it will remove ( deglase the bottom and that good stuff will be in this when done. ) or any wine that you like , it does add some goodness to it.

When that is done then turn down the heat to simmer and do the rest of the steps........If you want to.

3.... Slice up an onion and add it to the pot.

4.....Slice up a small head of cabbage and add it to the pot.

4 &1/2. Might want to add a little more water and let this cook for a couple of hours.

5....After a few hours then add some corn and carrots , slice the carrots up and the corn can be one of those frozen packs of it , the ice in it adds some more water. Stir it and forget it for an hour or so.

6....About two hours before you want to eat it add a frozen pack or Garden peas , Some string beans ( the green ones ) and some Lima's.
NOTE .. Make sure you take them out of the package. :roll:

Now slice and dice up a couple of potatoes into half inch chunks and add them.
( for myself I add some okra , the wife hates it , I love it )

Stir and continue simmering for about two hours........

It is better the next day but dang good the 1st day........

Chuck.
When I do this out camping at a lay over ( same day or two nights at the camp ) for the guy's , there is never any left overs and the pot is spanking clean. 8) "O" if you are the cook on a paddling trip , this can be done at home (just don't eat any of it ) then Zip Locked and frozed. Then reheated on the river for supper , Just like my home made Chicken noodle soup or Chili. All of them are a lot better the next day.

OK.. Back to building Canoes..........