New with lots of ????

[tsigmon]

I just found this site this morning and was dang near late going to work because of trying to read as much as posssible. I just this week recevied my plans for a Uncle Johns pirogue fo me and my two sons to build and we can't wait to get started. Last night we got 6 sheets of 1/4" BC exterior plywood and screws and with what we already have an hand we are ready to start cutting and scarfing the sides. My first question concerns the ribs and bottom width. I want to increase the bottom width 3" so the bottom width will be 28" instead of 25". As I understand the instructions I increase the bottm course of rib A by 3", make two B ribs each 3" longer and rib C 3" longer also for a total of 4 ribs is that correct. I hope this is not too basic of a question but hope to avoid as many mistakes as possible. Great site and I will probably be up late reading as much as possible. I hope to be an asset rather than a liability at some point

Thanks
Tim

 

[oldsparkey]

The nice thing about a UJ Pirogue is that you can build it what ever way you want it.... Widen it out or make it longer , what ever you need for your paddling.

It appears to me that you have a good understanding and are on the path to having it your way and no one else's , that is why we build our own boats......

One word of warning.... NO MATTER .... how you make the one , you will always think of a better way to do it , especially when out paddling so look out ............ This boat building can become contagious.

Two Sons and your self , I can see more of the Pirogues in your future........ Let the son's help you and then make theirs ( make sure to help them ) it will build confidence in them , and the fun of using them is just a side benefit.

Chuck...........

 

[captaindoug]

Hello and welcome. You will have lots-o-fun with the UJ Pirouge. Great bonding experience and the boys will definitely learn about safely using some tools. Check out posts by Seedtick on ribs, I "Stretched" the ribs on my "Kit" project, "Pirogue X Two",(Bayou Skiff Lite) and after I did all that,I saw Seedtick's post on how to make ribs from scratch which probably is the way to go. Since you are using plans I guess you are making all of it from scratch. Of course, as Chuck said, it's your boat, and you are the only one that will notice if it ain't "just right"

 

[seedtick]

Boat plans are like cooking instructions, you can follow them to the letter or use them as guidelines.

Just recognize that changing one parameter affects others, for example, making the boat wider without changing the profile of the sides will give you more rocker.

 

[tsigmon]

[]making the boat wider without changing the profile of the sides will give you more rocker.]

This pirogue will be used on Broad Rive in SC ....mostly moving flat water and an ocassional shoal. No real white water at all. Will increasing the bottm width 3" create too much rocker on app. a 14 footer? The plans call for a 45 degree angle on front amd back of the sides with the top being 1 1/2 " longer than the bottom. Would making the botton a little longer take out some of the rocker?

 

[mosportsmen]

Get yourself some poster board and make a quick model. All you really need is the sides and connect them at each end with tape. With this you can play with bottom width and see how this effects the rocker. I think the amount of side flair has more to do with increasing and decreasing the rocker than the front and back angle. The more rocker you have makes for tighter turning and reduces your ability for straight tracking. Sounds like you will be looking for straighter tracking more than tight turning where yo plan to use it. The 45 angle can also be changed. If you make it less of an angle you increase the bottom length a bit. Sounds to me you are making these adjustment to the plans to try to increase you carrying weight capacity? Increasing length and width of your bottom will help with that goal a little.

 

[JEM]

Uncle John's pirogue is a great place to start.

Some good advice so far. Another perspective:

If you think you might build another boat one day, I'd just build this one to "standard spec" and try it out. You'll get a feel for the process and what "is" and "is not" a fit for you desires.

 

[JEM]

[]making the boat wider without changing the profile of the sides will give you more rocker.]

This pirogue will be used on Broad Rive in SC ....mostly moving flat water and an ocassional shoal. No real white water at all. Will increasing the bottm width 3" create too much rocker on app. a 14 footer? The plans call for a 45 degree angle on front amd back of the sides with the top being 1 1/2 " longer than the bottom. Would making the botton a little longer take out some of the rocker?

Just reread this: If you're going to create a 3" wider bottom by drawing the bottom "football" wider, you'll change the needed legnth of the side panels. This can be done but you'll have to accurate measure the curved outer edge of the football and recut you side panels to the same length.

You could try this by laying out some string on the edge and then measureing the string. Or use a tailor's tape measure. Neither will be exact but might get you close enough to try.

 

[lil'moe]

I think you're trying to make it too complicated! I have two UJ's, one a three rib "standard" and the other a Four rib version. Both were made with 2 sheets of ply, per the instructions. On the four rib version, both of the center ribs are identical--the difference is there is no rib in the exact center of the boat. The center ribs are approximately 48" apart with the smaller ribs placed "where it looked right". I believe Seedtick says "by hand and by eye." Anyway, the bottom of this boat is 3" wider than the three rib version. The side angles are identical, so the four rib may be 1/2" shorter overall. I cut off the sharp points so its hard to tell. The four rib can handle a bit more weight,and may bea little bit more stabile, but either way, they are a great little boat-not so much in wind and waves- but a great little boat. Make a scale model of the sides from some lightweight cardboard, and block apart with some more cardboard, and you"ll see how rib placement will vary the bottom width, and do what I think you are after. Hope this helps.

 

[tsigmon]

Thanks for all of the advice and information provided so far.. I think I have tried to make it more comlicated than it should be and have decided it go with the stock demensions on this first one. If it doesn't suit me I can always do another one which I intend to do anyway. It rained here this afternoon so the outside projects I already had going and needed to finish before getting started on the pirogue got put on hold and we dressed some rough cut lumber down to 1 1/2" X 2" for the stems . I'm not really a woodworker but we managed to get the stems cut out( with a little trail and error ) and they turned out real nice . The plywood fit better than I thought we were capable of! we did the stems first because I though they would be much harder to do than they were, not exactly easy, but the next set ought to be a breeze.Next will be cutting out the sides to 11" and scarfing. Any advice on scarfing?

 

[lil'moe]

Can't offer a lot on scarfing, except that I didn't make it work for me. The fact that I had cheap luan ply with the wallpaper thick face veneer didn't help. I ended up doing a butt joint, reinforced with a fiberglass splice on each side. The joint is obvious, but watertite and strong. On my next try (it's an addiction!) I think I'll just sand a slight bevel on the ends so that it is a very short scarf-more of just an smooth overlap. I think this will not hide the joint, but help disguise it a bit. Really just your choice--it is Your boat!!

 

[tsigmon]

Finally got the sides cut and scarfed yesterday afternoon . I'm not really happy with the scarfing but it will do for this one I guess. We got it positioned and glued and it looked pretty good. If we are still not happy with it when we take all of the weights and clamps off would it work to cloth and epoxy over the scarf like a butt joint?

 

[oldsparkey]

If we are still not happy with it when we take all of the weights and clamps off would it work to cloth and epoxy over the scarf like a butt joint?

It never hurts to glass over a seam in fact it is recommended to do that.

 

[tsigmon]

Well, the glueing for the scarf seems to have gone ok but there is a slight problem though.I thought we had paid close attention to detail but some how we misalinged one of the panels . When we place the panel on edge on the floor one end is about 5/8 " off of the floor. This first pirogue we were planning to make about 14' and if we cut to that length it will reduce the misalingement some. Question do we put the bow up or down at the hull? I guesss the other option is to square it up with a saw, the original side height was cut to 11 3/4" so loosing 1/2- 5/8" won't cause too much of a problem . In another thread someone rabbited the rub rail so a little height could be gained back there. Any suggestions?

 

[islandpiper]

Our buddy Keith would not like a 5/8" error. Some of the rest of us would go ahead and diddle with both sides just a touch to make them as close as possible. Honestly......if you built a boat PERFECTLY matched and centered in all respects, and then your Dutch oven sat on one side instead of the middle of the bottom then all that hard work would be for naught. If you perfectly center the load, including yourself, and then the wind blows from one side or the other....what's the diff if one side had 5/8 more rocker. "Way up north, the Indians used to build canoes REALLY OFFCENTER......and then they could paddle all day on one side and never have to alternate.

My free advice? Build the bugger, have fun, go fishing. Next winter make another one.....and watch your line ups when you glue scarfs.

piper

 

[JEM]

I'm with Piper... true up the panels so left and right sides match when you lay them on top of each other. When you get the frames and bow stems together with the sides, you'll get a good visual of how she will look. You could always disassemble from there if you really needed to.

But I'd push forward and see how it looks.

 

[seedtick]

fix the sides - no one else may ever notice but you will know it's there and you'll kick youself for not fixing it when you had the chance

if losing a 5/8" of side height is a bother, you can always add a top rail to get the 5/8" back, that's easier than trying to rabbit out a rail
we normally add a top rail on plywood anyway to help prevent water from getting into the edge grain of the plywood

 

[tsigmon]

Took seedtick's advice, cut out the scarf, re-scarfed, glued ,screwed, weighted and waiting now for the glue to dry. As we are waiting we are working on the ribs and gussets. We bought just the plans but now I wonder if the kit with stems and ribs would have been money well spent. Oh well, getting good experience and practice for the next one.

This is a father/ son project and it is fun. We tried half heartedly to talk a friend of my sons and his father to do one at the same time so we could enjoy the project together but no luck. Over the weekend they went to Academy Sports in Spartanburg and and bought a Pelican 10' kayak for $179 and are alredy on the river enjoying it. Second thoughts..... naww ...we will have more of what we want when and if we get finished.

 

[islandpiper]

Just my two cents worth.....that 10 foot plastic yak does just one thing......when you get your pirogue done you will find it to be a fishing platform, touring boat, aqua pick up truck, camping-half-shelter, dining table (inverted), grand kids play room in the back yard, and a million other things. And, with care, you will still have it when the guy who bought the yak is looking for the little RECYCLE symbol so he knows what day to put it out on the curb.

And......way beyond dollar value is the Dad 'n Lad time you are getting in. My little lad turned 30 today, and he still has the UJ we built together when he was 21.

piper

 

[mike]

Yup! What the Piper said!

Mike