New with lots of ????
- Thread starter tsigmon
- Start date
Boy, am I glad we started with this instead of a 23' center console like I have been daydreaming about. What a learning curve. Got the sides attached to the stems ( glued and screwed) with out too much trouble. The problem now is the scarf joints look weak. They are holding and no seperation of the panels but there is a definite break in the curvature of the sides at the joint . Instead of a smooth curved line it looks more like this , <>. I think I will cut a 4" wide piece and cover the scarf joint on the inside to strenghten the joint and place the middle rib there. If I hadn't already glued the stems I would take it apart and epoxy and glass the seam. I wonder if I could get the glue loose, I used Elmers wood glue. Any ideas on getting this thing apart now?
TS, Probably the only clean way of taking it apart is with a saw. If you try to break the joint, it's likely to splinter and tear. Your idea of a butt plate on the inside is not wrong. A couple layers of fiberglass on both outside and inside may be sufficient, or it may not. A butt plate will definitely reinforce the parent material, and may help you regain the curve instead of an angle.
Now that you've assembled it and had a different look, you can determine if you move forward or decide to start over. It's a good plan in my mind because you get to learn from your experience.
You could apply a butt plate patch or fiberglass patch over the scarf area.
Keep in mind, with any scarf, plate or patch, you will create an area that will be stiffer and more resistent to bending than a continuous piece of wood.
You could apply a butt plate patch or fiberglass patch over the scarf area.
Keep in mind, with any scarf, plate or patch, you will create an area that will be stiffer and more resistent to bending than a continuous piece of wood.
tx river rat said:
As Ron said , the strips on the sides will straighten things out for you. The outside one along the top will help to form the boat while adding strength to it. Do Not try to pick the boat up and move it without it on there , the sides can flex and break a rib in the boat. The outside rail stops that from happening.
The boat will have more of the shape you are looking for when that is done , it will take the inside strip to compleate the project and make the boat look the way you think it should.
Chuck
what they said is correct
next time increase your scarf ratio
for 1/4" thick you should have a 2" wide minimum scarf on each board, preferrably 3" on each board
next time increase your scarf ratio
for 1/4" thick you should have a 2" wide minimum scarf on each board, preferrably 3" on each board
Elmer's Wood Glue? meaning the PVA type or the foamy kind like Gorilla glue/
if you used the PVA kind you can probably use a heat gun and open the joint. And, Yes, gunwales and chines will cure alot of ills.
piper
if you used the PVA kind you can probably use a heat gun and open the joint. And, Yes, gunwales and chines will cure alot of ills.
piper
First I want to thank everyone for their advice and help . It has really made this project more of a learning experience than a chore. We try to follow the plans , make blunders, ask for help and advice and try another approach to try fix the problem. It has shown the kids that making mistakes is not the desirable thing to do but problems can be solved if you work at them.
Tonight there were other chores more pressing so the pirogue was last on the list. Instead of tearing it apart or junking it and starting over, we decided to work with what we have and put a patch over the scarfs and maybe do a butt joint on the bottom .We did re do the middle rib to compensate for the patches over the scarfs. We shortened it by 1/2" to maintain the desired 28" bottom and called it quits fo the night. Tomorrow evening we hope to put the patches in and set the ribs.
The plans call for setting the ribs then putting on the top rail .I hope by patching the scarf and setting the ribs the curveature will be what we want. This time we will just screw it together incase we need to take it apart to install the top rail first to get the curve.
Oldsparky, don't see a inside rail on the plans , is that a custom add on? Would it be the same size as the outside? Do the ribs have to be shortened to make it work right?
Tonight there were other chores more pressing so the pirogue was last on the list. Instead of tearing it apart or junking it and starting over, we decided to work with what we have and put a patch over the scarfs and maybe do a butt joint on the bottom .We did re do the middle rib to compensate for the patches over the scarfs. We shortened it by 1/2" to maintain the desired 28" bottom and called it quits fo the night. Tomorrow evening we hope to put the patches in and set the ribs.
The plans call for setting the ribs then putting on the top rail .I hope by patching the scarf and setting the ribs the curveature will be what we want. This time we will just screw it together incase we need to take it apart to install the top rail first to get the curve.
Oldsparky, don't see a inside rail on the plans , is that a custom add on? Would it be the same size as the outside? Do the ribs have to be shortened to make it work right?
tsigmon said:
Not sure if it is optional or required , I always add an inside one since it pulls the boat together for me. The ones I use are normally the same size as the outside one but that is up to the builder.
Same with either making it one solid piece on the inside or cutting it to fit between the ribs. Or even adding spacers between the inside of the side and the rail ..... Decisions , Decisions.
The first pirogue I made only saw the rain water in the back yard, and I never finished it before I threw it out the shop door and started over. Just wished I would have chunked it $50.00 of epoxy earlier. That night I started over and when I finished, I had built a beautiful pirogue.
It doesn't sound like you have gone too far to strategicly regroup.
Isn't It easier to make two stems and two sides, than to re-supply epoxy and glass cloth.
Yes you can still build another later that you will be happy with, or start it now.
Once you get that splicing done its all down hill from there.
I don't believe in quitting, but I do restart sometimes.
Good luck with either path you travel, even if you have to go back to the trailhead to get there.
Tommy
It doesn't sound like you have gone too far to strategicly regroup.
Isn't It easier to make two stems and two sides, than to re-supply epoxy and glass cloth.
Yes you can still build another later that you will be happy with, or start it now.
Once you get that splicing done its all down hill from there.
I don't believe in quitting, but I do restart sometimes.
Good luck with either path you travel, even if you have to go back to the trailhead to get there.
Tommy
We haven't been able to do much lately because of other commitments but have a little time now to move forward. Originally we made four ribs as per the plans for a wider bottom. When we placed them in the sides at what we thought looked right it made the bottom wider than what we wanted so we only used three ribs. It still has a little kink to it but not as much as it did and I think the rub rail will take most of that out. After looking at lots of picture of what other people have done I guess there is no absolute right or wrong way as to the number of ribs or their placement . As of now, the glued scarf joints are holding and will be covered later with epoxy and cloth to reinforce them.
The fiberglass cloth and epoxy arrived today and we are wanting to get the bottom butt join started tonight if possible but I need a tuttorial. I guess we can only do one side of the bottom at a time , let it dry ,then do the other side. Do we lightly apply epoxy to the wood let it cure , then more epoxy , lay the cloth and then wet out the cloth or can it be done all at one time?
Off to the barn to mangle some more wood!
The fiberglass cloth and epoxy arrived today and we are wanting to get the bottom butt join started tonight if possible but I need a tuttorial. I guess we can only do one side of the bottom at a time , let it dry ,then do the other side. Do we lightly apply epoxy to the wood let it cure , then more epoxy , lay the cloth and then wet out the cloth or can it be done all at one time?
Off to the barn to mangle some more wood!