john's A$$ finally in gear

[john the pom]

Gonna take a few days break on account of a touch of conjuctivitis. Coupla questions for Mick specifically, on account of his location.
What sort of paint and varnish have you been using Mick? I've spoke to a coupla painters and they're either unsure, or say to use anything???
Also once decks are fitted and glued do you glass them then and over the edge of the sides, or just the deck before fitting?
Finally ( for now anyways) Those measurements you mentioned re footbrace placement; given I'm about five foot six and probly closer to Robin's size can you give me a guesstimate. Should measurement be taken from centreline, or back of seat?
Thanks mate,
Regards John.

 

[hairymick]

G'day John,

Will check the paint and varnish brands in the morning mate. Your paint needs to be water based.

The gurus, I have spoken with here all gave me different stories. From what I have been able to find, out Poly U 400, which is a two pack, UV stabilised polyurethane is the best that is available here. I haven't been able to get any just yet and have been using a oil based UV resistant marine varnish.

Re the fibreglassing the deck to the side, I overlap the seam and down the side about 2 inches. To get a nice even edge on the glass, I run masking tap along the side panel at 2" below the seam and completely wet out the glass, even what goes over the masking tape.

Now, this is very important. You need to remove the masking tape, BEFORE the wet out coat goes hard. I run a sharp stanley knife along the upper edge of the masking tape to cut the cloth and then pull the tape off.

When that goes hard, I run my pull scraper along the edge of the cloth to take off the little ridges there between successive coats. doing this with each coat, you can get it feathered down so that the join is invisible.

Re the foot braces, will take some measurements on Robin's boat in the morning. How I worked out positioning for me, was to sit on the floor, back against a wall with my legs out straight. got a mate to measure from the wall to where my feet were.

I took this measurement and used it from the back of the seat (that is where the back band will be) and marked the hull. I placed the foot braces so that this mark was in the middle of the foot-braces.

Like you I like to work to and from centre lines, but sometimes, ya just gotta improvise.

Oh yeah, If you havent put the decks on yet, DON'T untill you get the foot-braces fitted. Much easier this way - trust me on this. :lol:

 

[Kayak Jack]

John, I'm not sure how deep your decks will be, or if you plan to camp and carry gear under decks, or if you plan to install hatches. I will give you my experience and you can figure if or how to apply it to your situation there.

On my boats, I do not install bulkheads or hatches. I stuff gear under the decks and retrieve it back out. To facilitate this, BEFORE I install a deck, I install a pulley into the stem ends. I tie a short rope onto it, then glue the rope ends into the boat ends.

Into each pulley, I run a 1/8" rope loop. The loops meet in the middle of the boat, near the seat. I tie one loop through the other so they don't go astray. Near each knot, I bend on about 4" of heavy twine, one end longer than the other.

Gear in the stem ends of your boat should be the lightest thing you have. So, the first piece of camp gear that I stow is my sleeping bag in one end, and foam pad in the other. I wrap the long end of that cord around the gear a time or two, and tie it off with the shorter end. Then, I pull the rope to pull the gear up into the stem ends. I push with a paddle at the same time.

Both pushing and pulling gets it about 6" further up into the end than just pushing. Pushing on the tail end of gear tends to mushroom out the head end, not letting it go all the way. When I gain that 6" on each end, that gives me another foot of prime space in the middle of the boat. So, now I can take that cast iron kitchen sink that I just HAVE to take to camp.

Retrieving gear is easy, just yank on the rope.

 

[john the pom]

Hey Jack, reading my mind wasn't mentioned when I signed up here Have to admit I've been pondering just such possibilities. That is: not if but when I will be forced to put a tent and some camping gear in this thing and spend a coupla nights tripping. I'm not totally decided on whether or not to put hatches and bulkheads in yet. Though I will find space for a coupla cubic feet of floatation. There appears to be plenty of room for stuff for day paddling and fishing stuff, but I can see putting a coupla loops of rope in the ends makes sense. Even if I don't install pulleys immediately they would have an anchor should I want to do it later. Thanks for your thoughts and ideas.

 

[hairymick]

Heya John,

Sorry about the late reply. I have been a little busy today.

Paint I use is Taubmans Sun Proof Max

Varnish is Ameron Sea Spar 606 marine.

Got the paint at Bunnings and the varnish ar a local chandlery.

Forgot the positioning of the footbraces. sorry Will get em soon.

 

[hairymick]

Front of seat to rear foot brace mount screw on Robin's Laker is 385mm or near enough to 15"

Mount screw height above side to bottom seam (inside is 120mm or near enough to 4 1/2"

 

[john the pom]

Thanks for those Mick, they will come in handy. Well, just spent about two weeks being slack doing no work but lots of pondering. It's kinda like I got the thing threequarters done then lost track of what I was doing and began to consider lotsa possibilities. Some of which turned out to be silly, others not so.
Have decided to go with bulkheads, but only outlines of them, 'cos am gonna put the hatches in to the bulkheads. My logic is I've spent a lot of time and effort constructing a concept and I guess I don't want to cut holes into it. It's way too pretty. I know I'll have issues loading and unloading stuff from the hatches but I think its a small price to pay if I can retain the clean lines I've worked to achieve (with a beautiful design and lotsa guidance from you guys). Seat and footbraces will initially be temporary and very movable, on account of Ron's initial problems with stability etc, I don't have anything like Mick's experience with kayaks to call upon, so I'll be making it up as I go along... Read somewhere about you guys using rubber squeegies... What's all that about? I thought EVERYONE used brushes... I was probably absent from school that day. Mebbe will try squeegies on the next one. Meanwhile I spose its time I got a move and got this thing finished!

 

[hairymick]

G'day John,

Read somewhere about you guys using rubber squeegies... What's all that about? I thought EVERYONE used brushes...

I use disposable foam rollers from Solly's to apply the resin and plastic, soft bladed queegees to wipe the excess off.

These have a blade like a window washer and I get them at a discount store here (Flash Harries) when they have them.

 

[john the pom]

I've been away for a while, but I'm back. Ok almost finished now and have to say that it wasn't until the final coat of epoxy on the deck that I actually "got it". I'd been trying to use brushes, cos that's what I thought was used. I tried the squeegee thing but it didn't work for me. I ended up using a firm sponge, the cheap and nasty kind, not on a roller though they were actually from a roller. I found I could move and manipulate the epoxy to where I wanted it to be, and get it as a nice thin coat. I have used way too much epoxy on this kayak, way more than I could have got away with. The finish isn't as I'd like it but it is way adequate for a first build. Importantly I "got it" for any future builds!
I have temporarily installed the bulkheads with silastic, which will easily come out with a sharp knife. Am pretty sure I'll replace the rear bulkhead and make a cover/hatch that will double as a backrest and move the front bulkhead back, unless that space proves useful as space in its own right. Haven't installed any permanent seat, I'll play with seat location on the water and use cushions or something till I decide where and what I need. For the same reason I haven't installed any hatches, though I'm sure they will be in the bulkheads... Ok that might change, I don't know yet.
I need three or so coats of varnish on the deck and am installing braces next few days hopefully Easter weekend should see a launch.
I initially installed a coaming as per plans but removed it on account of I could. Not saying the one I ended up with is better but I wanted to do it this way.
The boat should be considerably lower than Mick/Robin's because I took a bit off the sides (bout 3/4") because I wasn't happy with the bond at that place. Then I lowered the foredeck deliberately, again no problem with the plans, just my preference.
My thoughts overall on the build: I made things hard for myself by not looking for the correct way to apply epoxy to the outside of the kayak, and didn't pay attention enough to the process required. I have to admit I got to the stage where I lost faith/interest for a while. That coupled with a quite extreme physical reaction to the epoxy. Mebbe 'cos I used cheap stuff I dunno, perhaps I'm just more sensitive than most.
The outcome: I'm stoked with myself for sticking with a project and learning something new. I now own a kayak that cost a fraction of what the equivalent bought one would have cost. I'm sure if this thing is half as good as Mick claims I'll be thrilled to bits with it.

Ps Jack the metal ring on the front is actually the top... ok or bottom end of a s/s turnbuckle. The other end is "My pulley" :wink:

 

[sheena's dad]

Hey, John;

Beautiful boat there, I have to admit. You deserve to pat yourself on the back for that one. Great job. Can't wait to see pics of her on the water.

Steve

 

[hairymick]

I'm sure if this thing is half as good as Mick claims I'll be thrilled to bits with it.

It is as good as I claim and yes mate, you will be thrilled with it.

Bloody good job mate.

What day are you planning on launching? I have some days off that week and would love to share the moment with you.

 

[hairymick]

Oh yeah,

Sweet spot for the seat is the front of the seat - right on the panel splice. If you like, I will machine up a couple of seat supports and bring them down.

 

[john the pom]

Hey Mick thanks for that, with the seat I findally decided I'm gonna go with recycling an old seat/backsupport from my other boat and just add whatever padding or height underneath it. I don't believe I need any added strength there. This will mean its removable and the boat lighter. But a huge thanks for the gesture anyhow. Now then as for which day, can't say as yet; have daughter coming home on leave for Easter so at this stage am on standby for airport duty. Will/ought/should have a clearer idea by Wednesday or Thursday. Will let you know as soon as I do, I'd hate to have you come down here to find I wasn't here.

 

[hairymick]

No worries mate,

I was having a "poppy" moment this morning. I just realised that Easter is this coming Week-end! and not the next one.

Sorry mate. Wont be able to make it.

 

[john the pom]

Have to correct an earlier error (It's ok I"m used to errors :? ) I said I'd used "Way too much epoxy". On re-reading the instructions it seems I was looking at Option one which is a taped boat and requires 5.7 Litres of epoxy. I actually used 7 litres, but built option two which is fully glassed inside and out and requires 9.5 litres! Apparently I used way too little epoxy Wonder if it will be 2.5 kilos lighter?

 

[JEM]

Have to correct an earlier error (It's ok I"m used to errors :? ) I said I'd used "Way too much epoxy". On re-reading the instructions it seems I was looking at Option one which is a taped boat and requires 5.7 Litres of epoxy. I actually used 7 litres, but built option two which is fully glassed inside and out and requires 9.5 litres! Apparently I used way too little epoxy Wonder if it will be 2.5 kilos lighter?

There's a bit of fudge factor in the estimates. If you can use less, more power to you! 8)

 

[Kayak Jack]

John, one of the parts of your posts that I liked was where you mentioned being stoked on yourself for building the boat. It's a real boost to self confidence to gain knowledge and skill, to be able to do something of note.

Congratulations.

 

[john the pom]

Jus spent two hours uploading six pics to photobucket and only two of them arrived there. This first one looks like a really scarey way to load a kayak on top of a very small car but I can assure you it was as solid as a rock and I won't hesitate to take it on the highway @ 100kph, that's 60mph. all the tension comes from the foam. The foam will not slide, too much friction going on there. The boat can't move backward or forward for the coaming.

Just to prove I actually got it to the water here's another of me ... almost launched. Way too hard to upload more photos today at the rate this thing is going, so will attempt to do more tomorrow.
OH! the boat, performance etc even the 13' version tracks like a train. You've read it on here before but this short a boat shouldn't be this quick.

Yes Jack I was stoked to be able to say I'd finished it and today that was surpassed by the knowledge of the fun I'm gonna have with this thing.
My very sincere thanks Matt and to all associated with this, and his forum.

 

[JEM]

Fantastic!


But there's a problem..... I see 3 people in that picture but only one boat.

 

[john the pom]

True Matt but I have a feeling that can change. Photobucket is in a better mood today
Finally

And a bit more detail on the tie down (bet some of you guys are having a fit looking at this tie down set up