Glue problem | SouthernPaddler.com

Glue problem

JAYCEESFOLLY

Active Member
Jul 8, 2007
35
0
Upstate New York
Yesterday I had time to butt glue the two side panels together and put them between two pieces of plexaglass. Well, this morning I went out to see what they looked like and found out that the epoxy had glued itself to the sheets of plastic. When I separated them from the plastic, the plywood separated and left half the plies glued to the plastic. I have a great butt joint but minus half the layers of plywood!
I guess I have three options: Cut out the damaged sections and re-glue and have a 12 foot piro or build up the area with more glass and paint the outside( it looks terrible now) or put a backer plate (right name?)over the damaged section.

I am not sure where to go from here. Any suggestions on what went wrong and what is the best option. By the way, the strength of the joint is amazing with only one layer of cloth.
 

islandpiper

Well-Known Member
My suggestion.....cut them apart, reverse them and re-do the joint to make it right (it is a long swim back to the truck)......then extend one section or both with another (or two) more butt joints, these will fall near the ends of the boat where the stresses are not so great during the building process.

I never use plexiglass.....if you must then a THIN wipe of dish soap will keep it from bonding to the epoxy.

Piper
 

oldsparkey

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2003
10,479
123
Central , Florida
www.southernpaddler.com
I have used the thin plexaglass when doing butt joints and never have had a problem.

I lay one sheet of it down , place the boards over it , then wet in the fiberglass over the joint and place another sheet of the plexaglass over it , place a light weigh on it and the next morning separate it , flip the boards over and do the other side.

I can't see where you went wrong or why that happen. What I use to use were some cut garbage bags , the heavy plastic ones to keep everything off the work table.

Chuck.
 

FlaMike

Well-Known Member
Jun 20, 2007
624
2
Spring Hill, FL
www.ptponds.com
From what I'd read on this Forum, I was under the impression that epoxy would not stick to Plexiglas, at all. Did I read the above post correctly???
It actually stuck to the Plexiglas?

My first glass cloth backed butt joint was done using wax paper. It worked fairly well, but I had problems with the wax paper sticking to the epoxy. I put that down to the fact I was building in the garage with 90*+ temps outside, no idea how hot it got inside, but it was like an oven. I thought that the heat of the room combined with the heat of the curing epoxy had melted the wax.

It did take a little extra work to sand that wax paper off, but no real problem. So the rest of my butt joints were made using some thick plastic bags that were meant for shipping live fish. a few cuts with a razor knife and they were opened up flat, and just big enough for the job.

So far, the epoxy has not stuck to that, at all. There were a few places that had some wrinkles from the bags that had to be sanded down, again just a little more work, but no real problem.

Piper's suggestion of using dish soap to keep the epoxy from sticking to the Plexiglas sounds like it would work, but I don't see how it would be possible to make a FG tape-backed butt joint that way. At least, not the way I made the joints.

I laid the plastic sheet down, then laid a piece of the tape on it and wetting it out with epoxy, spreading the epoxy off the tape a couple of inches on both sides. Next, the two pieces to be joined, the joint area already having been lightly sanded was laid on top of the wet tape, then another piece of tape was wetted out on top of the seam. Another layer of plastic sheeting across that, and the next two pieces of ply being joined was lined up and laid on that, tape on top, and another layer of plastic.

A piece of ply on top of that, then a weight just heavy enough to hold it all flat was used.

This is basically how I did both of the side panels at once, in sort of a "sandwich." The advantage was in getting both panels done at once, and there was no having to turn a joined panel over with only one side taped and glued, and then doing the other side.

So if epoxy does bond with Plexiglas, then I guess I'd have to keep using the plastic sheet on the next build, and just live with having to sand down a few epoxy wrinkles.

The above method of making several butt joints at once was shown in a very nice diagram about half-way down the first page of THIS THREAD. The glass-backed butt joint and other methods of joining sheets of ply was fairly well covered in it.

Mike S.
Spring Hill, FL
 

JAYCEESFOLLY

Active Member
Jul 8, 2007
35
0
Upstate New York
Thanks for the suggestions, guys. But I think I had too much weight on the plastic sheets. Chuck said he uses a light weight and I had two concrete blocks on each piece of plywood, so I think that was the problem.

Here are some photos
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IM001173.jpg


IM001176.jpg


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Chuck: I took the paper off the plastic.

Matt: I am using Raka 127 And 606 (slow) hardener.

Seedtick: Aha!!! This is old plastic sheets that have been laying around in the storage shed and they are beat up pretty bad.

TX RR and Piper: I am going to cut out the bad sections and re-butt them tomorrow morning. My 16 footer will now be a 13 footer!

I put some photos in this reply, I hope they come out. The last two photos are pictures of my beach area where I hope to make a maiden voyage someday and one photo to remind all of the people that live up in the North what is coming.

Thanks for your help, everyone.
 

Wannabe

Well-Known Member
Apr 5, 2007
2,645
2
on the bank of Trinity Bay
Is it posible that there is another material that appears to be plexiglass but has entirely different properties from plexiglass that you used. Don't know but was wondering about?
Bob
 

oldsparkey

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2003
10,479
123
Central , Florida
www.southernpaddler.com
You might be able to correct the problem by mixing up some wood flour and epoxy to fill in the damaged area.

I would suggest trying it before amputating all of that wood and having a shorter boat.

When you glass the boat the filled in area will be covered with the glass. I have filled in voids with the epoxy and wood flour mix and it worked for me , nothing ventured , nothing gained or lost. I have even built up some areas with the mix and they worked perfectly.

Just some ideas , the decision is yours.

Chuck.
 

JAYCEESFOLLY

Active Member
Jul 8, 2007
35
0
Upstate New York
Matt: It's 5.2 mm luan from Lowe's. Maple on one side, birch on the other.

Jack & Wannabe: The plastic is polycarbonate(lexan). It's used for windows and doors. I replaced the window in my aluminum storm door a number of years ago because the wind broke the glass. I bought a full sheet. It's been in the shed ever since. As you can see, I actually broke one piece in half trying to peel it off the plywood. It's 1/4 " thick!

I was hoping to get this piro done in a month or so but it's beginning to look like I may end up launching this thing when the beach looks like the last photo!!!!!!!!
 

oldyaker

Well-Known Member
Aug 26, 2003
1,949
31
I used new plexi when I made mine....my friend used the same plexi building his with no issue. I may pick up an aerosol can of mold release to spray on the plexi before I do the next boat. I wonder after it gets scratched up just like the Tick said is what may be the issue. ....I'll bet you was sick when that happened.
Chuck is right....that epoxy and wood flour can make some nice repairs.
Hope you can save it!
 

oldyaker

Well-Known Member
Aug 26, 2003
1,949
31
I know Piper.....Ya got a million of 'em! All bad....but ya still got a million of 'em! :?

Piper, Do you do kids partys, Bar mitzvahs and weddings? :roll:

Jack, Is that you reaching out from behind the curtain with that giant hook around Pipers neck?