If you guys had the right kinda boat, the GALS would be approaching you. Must be just the way I'm building them?cctyer said:
I have to carry a Louisville slugger to keep them away.
FlaMike's Pirogue Build!
- Thread starter FlaMike
- Start date
I have to carry a Louisville slugger to keep them away.
And, about that, I would be wrong.
Quoting myself? Not a good sign. :shock:
It took quite a bit longer getting the in-whales installed that I figured on. Had a couple of "issues" to deal with. The new clamps I bought were not quite as big as I thought, but I came up with a work-around for that. To make up for the low number of clamps, I used some screws to help keep things together while the epoxy sets up. And of course, that means more screws to remove and holes to fill.
I thought I'd be better off putting off taping and epoxy coating the inside until the clamps and screws could be removed, so I started to turn it over and begin glassing the bottom and sides, when I discovered I'd never finished off the area where the rub rails meet at the ends!
I used a Sureform to shape both ends, settling on a more rounded look. Doing that by hand took a while, but it was worth it. Then I turned the boat on it's side as you can see in the first picture below, and made another "interesting" discovery.
Using the router with a round-off bit to shape the edge where the bottom meets the sides work out pretty well. But I still had a bit of a ridge there they came together, all the way around the boat. The second part of that is some minor damage, due to using a cheap router bit that doesn't have a bearing on the end.
After the router bit heated up, the bottom of it that rides along the wood acting as a guide while making the cut, started burning into the wood, probably because I was rushing the cut. At one point, there was a smokey-haze filling the garage. . .
So instead of glassing, I'm currently merrily sanding away!
I've decided I'd much rather get it done RIGHT, than to get it done FAST. Glassing the boat would not be a good thing for me to rush through. And I've learned that just like painting, to get an epoxy coat to come out right means having the surface properly prepared to begin with.
Looks like I'm going to have to put the launch date further back on the calendar, again. What the heck, at least now I can spend the time it's going to take to do a good job, rather than push it through and have something that isn't as good as I could have made it.
Almost forgot! The pictures! (I'm posting this at 4:40 in the AM, what do you expect?)
First pic, view from the bow, boat on it's side for bottom work. You can kind of see the in-whales installed. The don't run full-length, as I've decided to deck over from the end frames to the stem & stern post.
Second pic, same situation, from the side. You should be able to make out that router burn where the sides meet the bottom, near the bow (on the right.)
Or, maybe that's the stern. . .
I'll put in another hour or so, then off to bed so I can be ready to got to, uh, I mean, er. . . Pardon my language, but there's no way around it, my 3 day work week begins tonight.
Gotta' go! :lol:
Mike S.
Spring Hill, FL
I love to watch the learning curve. And just listen to CCTyer! Built a boat and immediately turned around to lend a hand to another new builder! The torch gets passed quickly - and surely - around here..
Like Jack is always telling us , the pointy end goes up front , which pointy end ... Jack ?
Chuck.
Chuck.
The FRONT pointy end, Chuck. Do I have to explain EVERYTHING to you?oldsparkey said:
You must have found your children along side the road. 'Twasn't anything natural you did.
I got home this morning around 8:30, a little later than normal. (Interesting night in the ER.) Needing to regain some of the time lost over the last few days, I decided to put in a hour or so on the boat, before going to bed.
Just in case nobody noticed, as far along as I've gotten, I'd not yet applied the FG tape to the inside seams. So, that's what I did!
The inside side to bottom seams has now been bonded together, for better or worse, with epoxy and FG tape. Interesting to me, at the stem and stern post, there's a complicated shape in a tight space that meant having the tape overlaying itself, sometimes three layers think. And it turned out to be a little easier than I thought to get those thicker sections fully wetted out.
Working with just 3 ozs of mixed epoxy at a time, I first coated the bottom and sides with epoxy where the tape would go. Once done, I went back and laid the tape on the still sticky epoxy and made sure it was where I wanted it. Then I did the wet-out, again working with just 3 ozs of epoxy at a time. Since I had some left over when I got to the ends, I spread that over the bottom, from the last rib to the ends, so those two areas have now had their first coat done.
Like I said, I intended to get an hour's worth done, but I didn't knock off until the job was done, about 11:30 AM.
That's going to make for a rather long night, tonight. But if I'm not dead tired when I get home tomorrow morning, I'll see if I can get the entire insides epoxied up. Two coats at least, anyway.
Since that should go faster than the glue & tape thing, I'll try working with a larger amount of epoxy this time, probably a 6 oz batch.
The 6 oz batch for a saturation coat sound OK? Or might that be too much at once?
Mike S.
Spring Hill, FL
Just in case nobody noticed, as far along as I've gotten, I'd not yet applied the FG tape to the inside seams. So, that's what I did!
The inside side to bottom seams has now been bonded together, for better or worse, with epoxy and FG tape. Interesting to me, at the stem and stern post, there's a complicated shape in a tight space that meant having the tape overlaying itself, sometimes three layers think. And it turned out to be a little easier than I thought to get those thicker sections fully wetted out.
Working with just 3 ozs of mixed epoxy at a time, I first coated the bottom and sides with epoxy where the tape would go. Once done, I went back and laid the tape on the still sticky epoxy and made sure it was where I wanted it. Then I did the wet-out, again working with just 3 ozs of epoxy at a time. Since I had some left over when I got to the ends, I spread that over the bottom, from the last rib to the ends, so those two areas have now had their first coat done.
Like I said, I intended to get an hour's worth done, but I didn't knock off until the job was done, about 11:30 AM.
That's going to make for a rather long night, tonight. But if I'm not dead tired when I get home tomorrow morning, I'll see if I can get the entire insides epoxied up. Two coats at least, anyway.
Since that should go faster than the glue & tape thing, I'll try working with a larger amount of epoxy this time, probably a 6 oz batch.
The 6 oz batch for a saturation coat sound OK? Or might that be too much at once?
Mike S.
Spring Hill, FL
p
Mike,
The size of the batch can be any amount "YOU" are willing to work with. Just look at what you have already done.If YOU think YOU can apply a larger batch before it starts to set up, go for it.
Before mixing that larger batch, be sure you need all of it. Epoxy [like a mind] is a terrible thing to waste.
Mike,
The size of the batch can be any amount "YOU" are willing to work with. Just look at what you have already done.If YOU think YOU can apply a larger batch before it starts to set up, go for it.
Before mixing that larger batch, be sure you need all of it. Epoxy [like a mind] is a terrible thing to waste.
I'll keep that in my thoughts when I give it a try. I'm with you on wasting epoxy, but as for the mind. . . Well, too late for that!
Mike S.
Spring Hill, FL
Mike S.
Spring Hill, FL
Inside has now been epoxied. No FG cloth, just saturated. Now it can be turned over and the cloth started Monday morning.
Other than that, the only outstanding jobs before a launch would be adding the little bit of decking fore & aft and the building of the folding seats.
I have been thinking about putting off the decking until after a launch. Been thinking I might decide against adding it, any way. Maybe just half-a-foot of it, rather than from the last frames to the ends. After all, it is supposed to be a Pirogue, not a Kayak.
Anyone ever finish the glassing and put the boat in the water the very next day?
Mike S.
Spring Hill, FL
Other than that, the only outstanding jobs before a launch would be adding the little bit of decking fore & aft and the building of the folding seats.
I have been thinking about putting off the decking until after a launch. Been thinking I might decide against adding it, any way. Maybe just half-a-foot of it, rather than from the last frames to the ends. After all, it is supposed to be a Pirogue, not a Kayak.
Anyone ever finish the glassing and put the boat in the water the very next day?
Mike S.
Spring Hill, FL
Mate, I have done that. I used International HT9000 epoxy and got terrible ammine blush in the finish.
I now only use West Systems premium epoxy AND wait at least a week before getting a boat wet.
Was this because you launched it too soon, or because of the particular brand of epoxy you used?
I'm using the stuff from Raka. I'm not actually planning to finish up one day and off to the water the next. . . But the idea has crossed what passes for my mind.
I'm mixing their standard kit hardener's on "very fast" and one "slow," 50% each, if that would make a difference.
Mike S.
Spring Hill, FL
G'day Mike,
I have never used Raka epoxy so am unable to comment.
I am not sure as the the actual cause. I suspect it was a combination of inferior resin AND launching too soon.
Now, I buy the cheaper International stuff for filleting & glueing etc and use West for all the other pretty stuff. I find the west stuff is a lot easier to use as well.
The guys who use Raka could advise better than me, but I would wait a few days at least - just to be sure.
I have never used Raka epoxy so am unable to comment.
I am not sure as the the actual cause. I suspect it was a combination of inferior resin AND launching too soon.
Now, I buy the cheaper International stuff for filleting & glueing etc and use West for all the other pretty stuff. I find the west stuff is a lot easier to use as well.
The guys who use Raka could advise better than me, but I would wait a few days at least - just to be sure.
Thanks for the "heads-up" on that.
I forgot tomorrow was Monday and I can call Steve @ Raka. Besides, I need to order that graphite anyway.
Nice to know I'm not the only one who gets a little impatient when it comes to getting a boat in the water!
At least you didn't say the boards would all suddenly return to their former, straight & flat configuration. (What a mental image!)
Mike S.
Spring Hill, FL
I forgot tomorrow was Monday and I can call Steve @ Raka. Besides, I need to order that graphite anyway.
Nice to know I'm not the only one who gets a little impatient when it comes to getting a boat in the water!
At least you didn't say the boards would all suddenly return to their former, straight & flat configuration. (What a mental image!)
Mike S.
Spring Hill, FL
Mike,
Pretty much all of us have made just about the same errors once or more. You didn't get the cherry on this deal, believe me.
It's all a learning process, and we pass along experiences, thoughts, questions, etc. to each other. That still doesn't prevent errors, but it does let us make mistakes of a higher order.
Pretty much all of us have made just about the same errors once or more. You didn't get the cherry on this deal, believe me.
It's all a learning process, and we pass along experiences, thoughts, questions, etc. to each other. That still doesn't prevent errors, but it does let us make mistakes of a higher order.
Actually, it's been several post since I've confessed to any new mistakes.
But I'm still wondering if launching a boat the day after the last coat of epoxy has been applied, would actually be a mistake.
Mick didn't seem too thrilled with the idea, but it was unclear to me if the problem he mentioned was a result of a "premature launching," or just the normal results when using epoxy that might not have been the best.
So, what do you think? Just how soon after glassing would you put the boat in the water? Next day, couple of days, a week?
Mike S.
Spring Hill, FL
But I'm still wondering if launching a boat the day after the last coat of epoxy has been applied, would actually be a mistake.
Mick didn't seem too thrilled with the idea, but it was unclear to me if the problem he mentioned was a result of a "premature launching," or just the normal results when using epoxy that might not have been the best.
So, what do you think? Just how soon after glassing would you put the boat in the water? Next day, couple of days, a week?
Mike S.
Spring Hill, FL
RATZ!!!
Just got off the phone with Raka, and they pretty much concur with you guys. Their "official" word is "give it two days."
He says, "Look on the bright side, you can put 'er in the water this week end!"
"Dude! That's cold!" says I. " I'm off Monday thru Thursday, not week-ends."
Pooey! :roll:
Oh well. Here's my take on the "bright side." I can relax a bit, no need to feel rushed. Plenty of time to do a nice job on those seats, build the truck rack for transport, slap a dolly together to get her from the truck to the water, and pick up a PDF for the wife.
So, I could probably safely shoot for in the water on Thursday, but the weather outlook isn't all that good. If I have to wait for my next set of days off, then so be it. That would mean I'd have 4 days to evaluate the situation, decide if a keel runner is needed or not, and then on my next set of days off, enough time will have passed that I will be able to "dry-dock" her and get the varnish & paint job done, along with the graphite bottom. (Ordered that, just a few minutes ago.
Did I manage to convince anyone that I'm actually happy about having to wait at least two days after glassing before launching? :lol:
Just got off the phone with Raka, and they pretty much concur with you guys. Their "official" word is "give it two days."
He says, "Look on the bright side, you can put 'er in the water this week end!"
"Dude! That's cold!" says I. " I'm off Monday thru Thursday, not week-ends."
Pooey! :roll:
Oh well. Here's my take on the "bright side." I can relax a bit, no need to feel rushed. Plenty of time to do a nice job on those seats, build the truck rack for transport, slap a dolly together to get her from the truck to the water, and pick up a PDF for the wife.
So, I could probably safely shoot for in the water on Thursday, but the weather outlook isn't all that good. If I have to wait for my next set of days off, then so be it. That would mean I'd have 4 days to evaluate the situation, decide if a keel runner is needed or not, and then on my next set of days off, enough time will have passed that I will be able to "dry-dock" her and get the varnish & paint job done, along with the graphite bottom. (Ordered that, just a few minutes ago.
Did I manage to convince anyone that I'm actually happy about having to wait at least two days after glassing before launching? :lol:
Not knowing who "they" is that sez next day is OK, I'd wait at least three days. I strongly suspect that wetting the epoxy too soon is not a good idea.