To stiffen up the sides, I decided to do a pretty standard center rib. I glued in the side ribs tonight and will put the cross rib in tomorrow. A good sanding after that and on to paint. 
Time for another pirogue
- Thread starter jdupre'
- Start date
After kicking around the stability Issue with folks on here and other forums here are some conclusions .
WIDTH IS THE MAIN FACTOR IN STABILITY period
hard chine or soft and with the same width has very little difference in initial stability.
Soft chines do make for a less abrupt transition
Design of the hull below and above water has a major effect on initial stability.
length and hull shape ( symetrical etc) have a lot of effect on initial stability.
These are things that effect the hull
Now the kicker , the paddler.
Women will have greater intial stability because the carry there weight low,DO NOT SHOW THIS TO THE WOMEN OR WIVES :shock: .
fOR SOME PADDLERS A K1 IS STABLE ,MOST OF US COULDNT PADDLE ONE 10 FOOT WITH OUT A ROLL OVER. OPPS
I have a buddy that has no balance at all he can capsize a 5 ft wide boat in a heart beat, I have seen my grandaughter paddle the duck standing up with no problem , thats a 20 inch wide hull. so as the saying goes different strokes for different folks. Some folks are just more stable than others
Ron
WIDTH IS THE MAIN FACTOR IN STABILITY period
hard chine or soft and with the same width has very little difference in initial stability.
Soft chines do make for a less abrupt transition
Design of the hull below and above water has a major effect on initial stability.
length and hull shape ( symetrical etc) have a lot of effect on initial stability.
These are things that effect the hull
Now the kicker , the paddler.
Women will have greater intial stability because the carry there weight low,DO NOT SHOW THIS TO THE WOMEN OR WIVES :shock: .
fOR SOME PADDLERS A K1 IS STABLE ,MOST OF US COULDNT PADDLE ONE 10 FOOT WITH OUT A ROLL OVER. OPPS
I have a buddy that has no balance at all he can capsize a 5 ft wide boat in a heart beat, I have seen my grandaughter paddle the duck standing up with no problem , thats a 20 inch wide hull. so as the saying goes different strokes for different folks. Some folks are just more stable than others
Ron
Good idea, jp. I did solve the problem of the flexing with a center rib. She's rock solid now.
Woodwork and epoxy is done. I stretched what I had left of the epoxy to seal the most important areas. I'll paint her up with two/three coats of oil based paint. Weighed her in at 42 lbs. Paint might add a couple more. I can live with 45 lbs very well.
Final specs: Length - 13' 11" ........... Bottom length - 12' 2" ........... Bottom width - 22 3/8"........... Max Beam - 31 1/4" ............ Flair - 25 degrees ........... Rocker - 1" .............Cutback on bow and stern 10 on 12
I relaxed the flair a bit to get the rocker down some. Stil has plenty enough to be very stable.
Some thoughts: I found western red cedar to be just adequate for structural members on a build like this. Does not have the strength to hold fasteners well. It's also VERY splintery and light weight. Without epoxy, it would not be very useful.
The sanded pine ply impressed me with it's quality and it's virtual absence of voids. Strong enough and light enough without full glass coverage to make a strong boat.
Forgot how many more steps in a traditional chine log build. Fun..but more things to go wrong......especially for me.
Woodwork and epoxy is done. I stretched what I had left of the epoxy to seal the most important areas. I'll paint her up with two/three coats of oil based paint. Weighed her in at 42 lbs. Paint might add a couple more. I can live with 45 lbs very well.
Final specs: Length - 13' 11" ........... Bottom length - 12' 2" ........... Bottom width - 22 3/8"........... Max Beam - 31 1/4" ............ Flair - 25 degrees ........... Rocker - 1" .............Cutback on bow and stern 10 on 12
I relaxed the flair a bit to get the rocker down some. Stil has plenty enough to be very stable.
Some thoughts: I found western red cedar to be just adequate for structural members on a build like this. Does not have the strength to hold fasteners well. It's also VERY splintery and light weight. Without epoxy, it would not be very useful.
The sanded pine ply impressed me with it's quality and it's virtual absence of voids. Strong enough and light enough without full glass coverage to make a strong boat.
Forgot how many more steps in a traditional chine log build. Fun..but more things to go wrong......especially for me.
I finished sanding. The boat wasn't finished with sanding........I was finished with sanding. :roll:
Put on the first coat of almond oil based paint.
The bare pine was thirsty! The inside will probably need at least one more coat................depending on my mood. :wink: Paint can really cover up a multitude of "character" features.
Home Depot didn't have the color I wanted in oil based so I bought a can of Rustoleum dark green for the outside. Kind of had an urge to paint the outside the same color as the pirogue from a few years back...... the one in my avatar. I still might if I can find it at the local Ace Hardware.
Put on the first coat of almond oil based paint.
The bare pine was thirsty! The inside will probably need at least one more coat................depending on my mood. :wink: Paint can really cover up a multitude of "character" features.
Home Depot didn't have the color I wanted in oil based so I bought a can of Rustoleum dark green for the outside. Kind of had an urge to paint the outside the same color as the pirogue from a few years back...... the one in my avatar. I still might if I can find it at the local Ace Hardware.
Joey, that looks like a pleasant color to stare at whilst waiting for a bobber to go down. Should be easy to clean, and easy to find a dropped hook or sinker there. Also, easy to spot a water moccasin who may have slipped in. :wink:
Jack, you ought to see me do the "Moccasin Two-Step" ......... a take-off of the "Gator Boogie". :shock:
That Rustoleum flattened out to a nice gloss with just the first coat. Two more and then two or three on the outside should give great protection.
That Rustoleum flattened out to a nice gloss with just the first coat. Two more and then two or three on the outside should give great protection.
Did the inside of my boat in an almound color ,really liked it.
Just something that has worked for me.
Put just enough rustolem oil base on for a good cover but dont get it to thick.
Ron
Just something that has worked for me.
Put just enough rustolem oil base on for a good cover but dont get it to thick.
Ron
Thanks for the tip, Ron. I'm beginning like a paint finish, especially for a knock-around/fishing boat. You don't have to baby them as much.
Joey
Joey
The last coat of paint went on the pirogue this morning. At least the last one for a while.
I have a few paint drips to take care of and I'm planning on letting the paint cure until next weekend before I take it out. I can already tell that the Rustoleum is a much harder and slicker paint than the Ace Hardware oil based I used on the red pirogue.
Final weight........45 lbs. (20.45 kilos for my Aussie friends.) VERY satisfied with that weight. Same as the Swamper kayak.
At least the last one for a while. 
I have a few paint drips to take care of and I'm planning on letting the paint cure until next weekend before I take it out. I can already tell that the Rustoleum is a much harder and slicker paint than the Ace Hardware oil based I used on the red pirogue.
Final weight........45 lbs. (20.45 kilos for my Aussie friends.) VERY satisfied with that weight. Same as the Swamper kayak.
Thanks, Bee. Yep, I think it will be a dandy fishing boat. You and I had talked about weight as it related to boat length. A 14 ft boat at, say 45 lbs is noticeably easier to handle ( loading and unloading ) than a 16 or 17 foot 45 pounder.
Another thing that effects moving the boat around is width. Since building two pirogues with 22" bottoms and about 25 or so degrees of flair , I've noticed that they are easier to move around than something with 30 or more degrees of flair with a large amount of that flair extending out towards the stems. To me, it's just too much boat. Good to have for more stability but just takes away some of the easy handling I'm after in a small boat.
I read where one kayaker put it in perspective. (paraphrasing here) "The ultimate boating experience is picking up the boat with one hand and the paddle with the other and heading down to the water. The further you get from that simple beginning, the less pleasure you receive until, in the end, your slip fees exceed your house note. " Wouldn't apply to everyone, but it does have a certain literary flair, doesn't it? 8)
Joey
Another thing that effects moving the boat around is width. Since building two pirogues with 22" bottoms and about 25 or so degrees of flair , I've noticed that they are easier to move around than something with 30 or more degrees of flair with a large amount of that flair extending out towards the stems. To me, it's just too much boat. Good to have for more stability but just takes away some of the easy handling I'm after in a small boat.
I read where one kayaker put it in perspective. (paraphrasing here) "The ultimate boating experience is picking up the boat with one hand and the paddle with the other and heading down to the water. The further you get from that simple beginning, the less pleasure you receive until, in the end, your slip fees exceed your house note. " Wouldn't apply to everyone, but it does have a certain literary flair, doesn't it? 8)
Joey
That kayaker fully understands the KISS principle. He doesn't spend all of his money on a billfold.
Clean , sharp and really nice looking , you out did yourself on this one. I normally do not like a painted boat but your color's sure adds class to it and it looks really good.
jdupre' said:
For me 26" floor with 30deg. flaired sides about right.
Another factor besides weight, width, or length is having somewhere to grip the boat. The laddered inside gunnel worked better than the flush one. The tumblehomed boats have worked best for me. Pick the boat up by the combing and carry it over you shoulder.
One of the benifits of designing and building your own boat is you can build it like you want or need. What is important to you may not matter to someone else. Getting one that meets most of our needs and goals is the hard part. Make it a total joy to carry in one hand and it may be too fragile, too short, or not stable enough. No one boat will do every thing.
Boat dsigning and building = an exersise in compromising.
beekeeper
Made a fishing trip to Lake Verret to test out the pirogue. One fish in the boat and 1 gar that gave me short fight and got off.
As expected, she's a little slower than my kayak and the 16 ft pirogue of a few years back. Cruises pretty good at a little less than 3.5 mph. Tracks straight and turns well. Very stable with the 4 1/4" seat height. Weather cocks a bit like most open, high-ended boats. It defintely needs some kind of foot brace for comfortable paddling
She draws a little over an inch with the seat and riser, anchor, rod, water bottle and bucket with fish and 1/2 gal of water.
The almond color gives my camera fits. The color and details get washed out in the sun. It's a good color for a boat interior, though.
Joey
As expected, she's a little slower than my kayak and the 16 ft pirogue of a few years back. Cruises pretty good at a little less than 3.5 mph. Tracks straight and turns well. Very stable with the 4 1/4" seat height. Weather cocks a bit like most open, high-ended boats. It defintely needs some kind of foot brace for comfortable paddling
She draws a little over an inch with the seat and riser, anchor, rod, water bottle and bucket with fish and 1/2 gal of water.
The almond color gives my camera fits. The color and details get washed out in the sun. It's a good color for a boat interior, though.
Joey
jdupre' said:
When folks get in a hurry they attach a motor :roll: , a little less then 3.5 mph sounds darn good for a open ( work ) boat using nothing more then a paddle and people power.
oldsparkey said:
Yeah, I know, Chuck. Just spoiled I guess. Those folks attach a motor then a bigger motor, and a bigger motor and pretty soon you get what I saw on the Amite River.......... 40 ft sleek cigarette boat with FOUR 300 hp outboards ! :shock: