Stitch and Glue No Plans
- Thread starter oldbuffpilot
- Start date
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The final hull shape is 9’ long, 28” floor, 32 “ beam, 35degree flare, 6 inch sides, bow rocker 1.75”, stern 1”. I’m pretty sure the floor shape and tumble home won’t change the hull shape! But I’m learning every minute. I started to strip the tumble home in place, but remembered my objective is to make patterns for a S&G. So I made a template out of ram board, it is really too flimsy, but I think I made it work. Now my task is to make my tumble home panel flat on the table as normal S&G. BIG surprise.. This panel has so much curve the ¾” wide strips, would rather break than bend that much. So I’ve regrouped and cut strips to ⅜” wide. The virus and lack of Home Depot access is making this harder than it should be, but I’m opening a new challenge every morning in the shop, good times! One pic shows my cardboard tumble home before final trimming. The second picture the tiny strips SLOWLY going together.Now to figure out posting pictures. Please remember suggestions and comments are welcome.
I
I
Stay safe,
Andy
Thanks for the quick response and pictures.You found them in short order. I looked for about an hour last night, no joy. For now back to the sides, the boat just looked too fat so I cut the bottom of the form off to 28” wide and screwed it to the form to determine the chine curve. The picture shows the new line on the chine when the panel is flat.
The final hull shape is 9’ long, 28” floor, 32 “ beam, 35degree flare, 6 inch sides, bow rocker 1.75”, stern 1”. I’m pretty sure the floor shape and tumble home won’t change the hull shape! But I’m learning every minute. I started to strip the tumble home in place, but remembered my objective is to make patterns for a S&G. So I made a template out of ram board, it is really too flimsy, but I think I made it work. Now my task is to make my tumble home panel flat on the table as normal S&G. BIG surprise.. This panel has so much curve the ¾” wide strips, would rather break than bend that much. So I’ve regrouped and cut strips to ⅜” wide. The virus and lack of Home Depot access is making this harder than it should be, but I’m opening a new challenge every morning in the shop, good times! One pic shows my cardboard tumble home before final trimming. The second picture the tiny strips SLOWLY going together.Now to figure out posting pictures. Please remember suggestions and comments are welcome.
I
Stay safe,
Andy
Andy, she looks pretty sleak. Not easy for a 9 foot boat. I can tell you're getting the "feel" for how things go together.
I might have missed it, but, why such a short boat?
I might have missed it, but, why such a short boat?
If the tumblehome panel tapers to a point at the stems, bend the first strip along the inside curve stem to stems. The other strips will follow it but will start to run out on each end as they hang over the edge/sheer of the sides. The inside edge has less curvature. See above attachment # 1368.
I may be looking at the picture wrong or don't understand what your tumblehome is to look like, but it appears to be the same width from one end to the other.
Another way to shape the panel so the strips will follow the curvature is to not go all the way to the stems. I stopped the tumblehome at the breasthook on my son's Lake Bistineau Pirogue. It is 11.5' X 34" beam. The strips would have little problem bending to this shape (starting on the inside curve).
I may be looking at the picture wrong or don't understand what your tumblehome is to look like, but it appears to be the same width from one end to the other.
Another way to shape the panel so the strips will follow the curvature is to not go all the way to the stems. I stopped the tumblehome at the breasthook on my son's Lake Bistineau Pirogue. It is 11.5' X 34" beam. The strips would have little problem bending to this shape (starting on the inside curve).
Jdupre’ I do seem to prefer short boats, for some reason I always have. My first store bought boat was an 8’ aluminum john boat! I guess, then as now, easy to haul and drag over terrain, beaver dams, and such. Also my preferred fishing is in really tight brush and trees, where long boats can’t turn around. unfortunately, there is a lot of open water in central Texas and Kansas. I have built some 16’ boats and really prefer them for open water.
Jdupre’ and Beekeeper have been a big help on this project, thanks Chuck for making the exchange possible. Bee thanks so much for going the extra mile and reposting the tumble home photos and explanations. my photo of the card board tumble home mock up was a little misleading, it was my initial attempt roughing out oversize much like your initial plywood on your son's Lake Bisteneau pirogue, the stripped mock up is more trimmed. I hope the finished tumblehome is similar to your granddaughter ’s pirogue. With the 6” sides on the water mocassin, the tumble home will really be part of the side. BTW I have always admired the Granddaughters boat, it’s just classy! I still can’t go to Home depot, so I ripped a 16’ 2x6 rough cedar today, I will start layup of the other tumble home tommorow.
Thanks for the answers,
Andy
Jdupre’ and Beekeeper have been a big help on this project, thanks Chuck for making the exchange possible. Bee thanks so much for going the extra mile and reposting the tumble home photos and explanations. my photo of the card board tumble home mock up was a little misleading, it was my initial attempt roughing out oversize much like your initial plywood on your son's Lake Bisteneau pirogue, the stripped mock up is more trimmed. I hope the finished tumblehome is similar to your granddaughter ’s pirogue. With the 6” sides on the water mocassin, the tumble home will really be part of the side. BTW I have always admired the Granddaughters boat, it’s just classy! I still can’t go to Home depot, so I ripped a 16’ 2x6 rough cedar today, I will start layup of the other tumble home tommorow.
Thanks for the answers,
Andy
JD,
I'm not sure what that total depth will be. The water mocassion is in kansas, so I can't measure it. I didn't get to do any boat work today. I'll have better idea when I fair the shear on the tumble home. Probably not tomorrow.
Stay safe,
Andy
I'm not sure what that total depth will be. The water mocassion is in kansas, so I can't measure it. I didn't get to do any boat work today. I'll have better idea when I fair the shear on the tumble home. Probably not tomorrow.
Stay safe,
Andy
Tumble homes have been a challenge! Bee keeper’s methods to form them work good! However, Me deciding how wide, angle, end taper, etc, has caused a delay. I decided tonight on the larger of my three styles. Now to get busy and strip up a second tumble home to match the pattern I decided on.
Here are two pictures just for grins, one shows the extreme curve of tumble homes needed for a short fat boat.Beekeeper suggested earlier that a panel of “straight strips” might be easier. I elected to bend the strips, however the strips are only 12mm wide to make the bend. I am open to any solutions to remedy the “bend” challenge. One of my objectives is to make patterns that first time builders might be able to build from. The extreme strip bending may be too much for a fun kid build.
I’m beginning to think that the boat could be a little longer. A few fishing trips will tell. Grandma called it my toy boat and suggested the “model boat” may need a multiplier!
Chuck it looks like I’ve unwittingly started a build log in the serious build questions section. Maybe I have so many questions, it’s ok. Please feel free to move it.
Stay safe,
Andy
Here are two pictures just for grins, one shows the extreme curve of tumble homes needed for a short fat boat.Beekeeper suggested earlier that a panel of “straight strips” might be easier. I elected to bend the strips, however the strips are only 12mm wide to make the bend. I am open to any solutions to remedy the “bend” challenge. One of my objectives is to make patterns that first time builders might be able to build from. The extreme strip bending may be too much for a fun kid build.
I’m beginning to think that the boat could be a little longer. A few fishing trips will tell. Grandma called it my toy boat and suggested the “model boat” may need a multiplier!
Chuck it looks like I’ve unwittingly started a build log in the serious build questions section. Maybe I have so many questions, it’s ok. Please feel free to move it.
Stay safe,
Andy
I hope I have not led you so far off you can't get back. If you don't mind painting the strips you could make a rough pattern (paper, cardboard, etc.) and lay strips over it and then cut the excess away. The strips would not follow the lines of the curve but the paint would hide that. Not strips but that is what I did for the sides of my last boats sides. I used narrow boards (wide strips if you will) tongue and grooved together. The pattern was Luan.
A little longer boat would probably be an easier build for first timers. If you install the support ribs and they have been cut to their final size, gluing the strips in place on the boat may be easier than making them into a panel. That is how I did the lapstrake pirogue.
Disregard this. I forgot you said stitch and glue. I don't know stitch and glue. Sorry I muddied the water. I will sit down now.
Stay safe,
Andy
A minor distraction, that will add a day or two to this adventure. The good news is the second tumble home is glued up, the bad news is I put the hull outside while I used the table and it didn’t take much wind to push it off the sawhorses. So I’ll put it back to flat panels and fix it. We often say “ it’s wood and fiberglass, easily fixed”!
I’ll be back with progress and more questions in a day or two!
JD, It's ok for you to take a break, but get ready I've some more questions specific to techniques used on your Grand Daughters boat. Later when we get to that point. Thanks for sharing.
Good Fish’n
Andy
Andy
A minor distraction, that will add a day or two to this adventure. The good news is the second tumble home is glued up, the bad news is I put the hull outside while I used the table and it didn’t take much wind to push it off the sawhorses. So I’ll put it back to flat panels and fix it. We often say “ it’s wood and fiberglass, easily fixed”!
I’ll be back with progress and more questions in a day or two!
JD, It's ok for you to take a break, but get ready I've some more questions specific to techniques used on your Grand Daughters boat. Later when we get to that point. Thanks for sharing.
Good Fish’n
Andy
Been away from the boat for a few days, some of life's real stuff needs some TLC. so when I stitched the tumble home to the sides there was just too much pressure to make them fit, they looked ok but should just lay in place.So I put them flat on the table and used Bee’s suggestion of a Batten to fair what needed to be cut off. BUT the form angle on the tumble home had changed so I screwed some temporary braces on the forms, then cut new forms… everything is connected!
The concave bottom was the easiest part yet. Got curbside pickup 5mm plywood at lowes, so didn’t have to use strips for the pattern. I traced the bottom shape about 2” oversize, cut it down the middle, fit it to the forms and cut final size. the concave V isn’t as extreme as the pictures show, 1 ½ “ in the middle ¾ “ at the end forms.
So the patterns for a stitch and glue are done. A real good learning experience, I’ve wanted to do this for several years, thanks for the good help. Now to copy the patterns on ram board or maybe OSB. I may use these cedar patterns to build the boat, they are pretty rough, but I’m anxious to try the boat.
Now for some questions. I know some are questioning my sanity with the concave bottom. I know that Joey’s comments about sticking in mud are real, I’ve experienced it with the fiberglass boat. Just hasn’t been a problem for me. What do you think the effects on stability, tracking, and getting off of stumps and stick ups are. After years of using a concave bottom I suspect all three are positive. It logically seems getting off of stumps would be harder than a flat bottom, but that hasn’t been my experience. I’m interested in comments and suggestions.
I’ll probably start the real build from patterns next week.
Thanks for all the help,
Andy
The concave bottom was the easiest part yet. Got curbside pickup 5mm plywood at lowes, so didn’t have to use strips for the pattern. I traced the bottom shape about 2” oversize, cut it down the middle, fit it to the forms and cut final size. the concave V isn’t as extreme as the pictures show, 1 ½ “ in the middle ¾ “ at the end forms.
So the patterns for a stitch and glue are done. A real good learning experience, I’ve wanted to do this for several years, thanks for the good help. Now to copy the patterns on ram board or maybe OSB. I may use these cedar patterns to build the boat, they are pretty rough, but I’m anxious to try the boat.
Now for some questions. I know some are questioning my sanity with the concave bottom. I know that Joey’s comments about sticking in mud are real, I’ve experienced it with the fiberglass boat. Just hasn’t been a problem for me. What do you think the effects on stability, tracking, and getting off of stumps and stick ups are. After years of using a concave bottom I suspect all three are positive. It logically seems getting off of stumps would be harder than a flat bottom, but that hasn’t been my experience. I’m interested in comments and suggestions.
I’ll probably start the real build from patterns next week.
Thanks for all the help,
Andy
Well, that is the most variant design that I’ve seen. All of my experience is with convex boat bottoms, with only one side sashay with a flat bottomed canoe. I would expect the boat to track very well, maybe too well. My kayak has to little rocker that turnkng it on a river can be somewhere in between very difficult and hazardous..
So, I await hearing what your real field experience is, Andy.
So, I await hearing what your real field experience is, Andy.
Next up was to replace the Luan floor pattern with cedar. Ripped a 16’ 2x6 and ended up with 11/2 inch wide ¼ Inch thick strips. glued the rough shape of the two floor sides on the table.Then using the 51/2 inch circular saw cut the floor panels to final shape. I have found that by adjusting the circular saw so only about a full tooth goes through the material, I can cut smoother and more accurately than the jig saw, the curve in this picture didn’t need and sander fairing.
GLUING THE BOTTOM PANELS.
CUTTING THE BOTTOM PANELS
STITCHING FINAL TIME
Next I turned t it upside down squared and stitched it up straight and tight. I was pleased with the end Then glued the outside seams. sanded and rounded edges.
BOTTOM AND SIDES GLUED AND SQUARED
SANDING SEAMS AND SPOTS
INSIDE FILLETS
Once again I value suggestions, advice and questions. BeeKeeper, I have some specific questions that I hope you can help me with. On your Granddaughters boat you have a “bump rail” where the tumble home and the side join. I can’t tell from the picture if this is a rectangle strip, like a 1x2 or something more elaborate. I was thinking about a v shape that would protect or join both the side and tumble home.I guess I mean protect the seam.
Second question, how did you attach the “cockpit” railings and brace to the tumble homes. Maybe I can keep from reinventing the wheel?
Thanks to all for the suggestions and initial advice.
Good Fish’n
Andy
GLUING THE BOTTOM PANELS.
CUTTING THE BOTTOM PANELS
STITCHING FINAL TIME
Next I turned t it upside down squared and stitched it up straight and tight. I was pleased with the end Then glued the outside seams. sanded and rounded edges.
BOTTOM AND SIDES GLUED AND SQUARED
SANDING SEAMS AND SPOTS
INSIDE FILLETS
Once again I value suggestions, advice and questions. BeeKeeper, I have some specific questions that I hope you can help me with. On your Granddaughters boat you have a “bump rail” where the tumble home and the side join. I can’t tell from the picture if this is a rectangle strip, like a 1x2 or something more elaborate. I was thinking about a v shape that would protect or join both the side and tumble home.I guess I mean protect the seam.
Second question, how did you attach the “cockpit” railings and brace to the tumble homes. Maybe I can keep from reinventing the wheel?
Thanks to all for the suggestions and initial advice.
Good Fish’n
Andy
The "bump rail" is basically a rectangle but the bottom edge should/could be cut on an angle so that water would run off when the boat is stored upside down. I forget sometimes. Usually try for about 3/4" high X 1/2" or 3/8" thick white oak if I have some. Pine or cypress will save some weight but not as durable.
Can't find the build pictures but I think I installed a strip under the edge of the tumblehome panels and then glued another to the side of it and the edge of the panel. Let it stand as high as you want the combing to be and then cap off with another horizontal strip. A heads up, if you put the strip under the panel it will be difficult to completely drain the boat by turning it over. Putting the strip on top of the panel will work but will look different.
Beekeeper thanks for the reply, good clear answer. The picture also was a big help, I may just copy it!