plywood choices

[beekeeper]

"Epoxy Encapsulate all wood on this build (as planned, but more thoroughly)
Run the boat and keep Ya'll up to date on how it goes. Yes, I do have PFD,s
Check Northern Florida river temperatures. Ahhh. The Withlacoochee rarely boils...
Do the Naval Inspector thing with the small pointed tool on the wood twice a year.
Endure the slings and arrows ya'll may feel free to sling...."

Food for thought:
I don't know how invested into the boat you are but another option would be to cut your losses. This may be easier now than down the road. Only you can decide what is best in your circumstance.
I would guess encapsulating the wood with epoxy will not solve the issue of the plywood's interior glue.
In the link you posted https://arduinoinfo.mywikis.net/wiki/Boat_Building#From_Dave_Carnell Dave Carnell does not recommend it.
The question becomes, "If this plywood fails will the boat still be strong enough?". Power boats also have different stress and requirements than a paddle boat would.

 

[TerryKing]

...
I don't know how invested into the boat you are but another option would be to cut your losses. This may be easier now than down the road. Only you can decide what is best in your circumstance.
I would guess encapsulating the wood with epoxy will not solve the issue of the plywood's interior glue.
...

Hi @beekeeper.. Thanks.; Yes, I thought about it, but I already have it ready to put all the parts together.. I'll do some hard testing on it from time to time.

IF I can keep the wood from getting wet, it may survive. It won't be kept in the water...

And I will probably have the time to build something better with better materials Next Year. This was actually intended to be a quickie ready to travel to Florida (Withlacoochee River) for 3 weeks in mid February. I would ideally like to customize quite a few things, storage, 12V power, rain cover etc.

By next Christmas I will be up for Another Boat.

The 20 foot Cuddy Cabin I built with my older (Now much older) kids in 1978 is still workable. It is a monument to West Epoxy and Dave Carnell who showed me how to stop some rotting areas.

I'll put this 43 year old boat here to make me feel better (At Valcour Island in Lake Champlain last summer).

But Mary Alice and I love paddling. We have a 14 ft 2-person Old Town kayak and that will get used more than the JonBoat.

I have started a page with the build log and photos of this boat https://arduinoinfo.mywikis.net/wiki/Boat_Building_Jon_Boat and I will keep adding to it..

SIGH....

Ummm.... My Dad once told me that "The hard thing with getting really old is you watch many of your friends die". Too many already. But every one reinforces my determination: "Don't Sweat The Small Stuff!".. This is really small...

 

[Kayak Jack]

Terry, your Dad was right. Many of my old friends are gone.

BUT, there is another side to that coin. I don’t have to forgive my enemies. Cause I outlived them too!

 

[oldbuffpilot]

Terry, sorry I'm late with this, maybe old age or I wanted to forget it! This boat was made about 4 years ago, floor of sande ply 5.2 mm.saturated both sides of the floor with several coats of epoxy, no glass. it statrted to delaminate, I didn't care much for its stability so I just set it out side, maybe 3 years ago.

 

[beekeeper]

ARAUCO AC Sanded Pine Plywood Panel (Common: 23/32 in. x 4 ft. x 8 ft, Actual: 0.688 in. x 48 in x 96 in.) 917766 - The Home Depot

AraucoPly panels are made from pruned, plantation-grown Radiata pine logs for fewer knots and consistent appearance. For flatness and stability, AraucoPly panels are laid up on composed cores using exterior

www.homedepot.com

Rated exterior. I believe Joey has used this?

SANDEPLY 18mm - Sande Plywood ( 3/4 in. Category x 4 ft. x 8 ft.; Actual: 0.709 in. x 48 in. x 96 in.) 454559 - The Home Depot

Sandeplywood is a Home Depot Exclusive. Every piece meets the highest grading standard for strength and appearance. Sandeply is a hardwood plywood designed for interior applications.

www.homedepot.com

Rated interior.

"Sanded" plywood not the same as "Sandeply".

 

[oldbuffpilot]

ARAUCO AC Sanded Pine Plywood Panel (Common: 23/32 in. x 4 ft. x 8 ft, Actual: 0.688 in. x 48 in x 96 in.) 917766 - The Home Depot

AraucoPly panels are made from pruned, plantation-grown Radiata pine logs for fewer knots and consistent appearance. For flatness and stability, AraucoPly panels are laid up on composed cores using exterior

www.homedepot.com

Rated exterior. I believe Joey has used this?

SANDEPLY 18mm - Sande Plywood ( 3/4 in. Category x 4 ft. x 8 ft.; Actual: 0.709 in. x 48 in. x 96 in.) 454559 - The Home Depot

Sandeplywood is a Home Depot Exclusive. Every piece meets the highest grading standard for strength and appearance. Sandeply is a hardwood plywood designed for interior applications.

www.homedepot.com

Rated interior.

"Sanded" plywood not the same as "Sandeply".

The search for good cheap boat continues, maybe it doesn't exist! We know the old fashioned 1/4 exterior work even without fiberglass. it is just too heavy for some of us geezers. Here is the specs of the plywood on the boat in my

picture

 

[oldsparkey]

Or you could do like I did for that one Pirogue. I got a stack of 1 x 4 redwood boards and cut a bunch of 1/4 thick inch strips. Then used those strips to make the stripper Pirogue.

 

[Kayak Jack]

From the “For What It’s Worth Department” - a long time ago, I learned a lesson. If you want a specific item, and that item is expensive, and there a cheaper alternatives that are probably almost as good, but aren’t the real thing - I have four choices:
1. Do nothingforget about it.
2. Buy something different as a consolation prize.
3. Get the cheaper version that is almost as good. With this choice, I can pat myself on the back once - the day that I saved money. But, every time that I use the almost as good item, I kick myself in the butt.
4. If I truly want the item, I simply do what is necessary to get it. Period. With this choice, I kick myself in the butt only once - the day that I make the extra effort to get what I want. And, I pat myself on the back with a smile of satisfaction - every time I use it.

it’s a choice for me to make.

 

[jdupre']

I've used the sanded pine plywood on 3 boats. I found the tools worked better on it than on fir marine ply. It also had way less surface splits than fir. I never found many interior voids if I took my time and looked through the stacks. I wouldn't use fir now even if it was the same price..........and it's definitely not! Pine ply is a bit heavier and maybe not as pretty as some high-priced ply, but it pairs well with a simple pirogue. I'd guess you would gain 7-10 lbs in a boat built with it over a quality albeit, thinner ply.

Jack's 4 choices have merit, but I would change #3 in my experience. I've put 2000 honest miles in "cheap ply" kayaks and pirogues, and never had the urge to "kick myself in the butt" over having made that choice. They've done all I ever asked from them. Less than the best should not be construed as "worse" or "unusable".

One more thought. Long-time forum members know that beekeeper and Tx river rat have built maybe 25 boats between them over the years. The majority of those builds were covered in detail on this forum. A large percentage of those builds used cheap ply. I have the sneaking suspicion that if they had to pay for ply that cost 2-3 times as much, we might not have had the pleasure of seeing that many builds and seeing the different design concepts tried.

 

[oldbuffpilot]

I've used the sanded pine plywood on 3 boats. I found the tools worked better on it than on fir marine ply. It also had way less surface splits than fir. I never found many interior voids if I took my time and looked through the stacks. I wouldn't use fir now even if it was the same price..........and it's definitely not! Pine ply is a bit heavier and maybe not as pretty as some high-priced ply, but it pairs well with a simple pirogue. I'd guess you would gain 7-10 lbs in a boat built with it over a quality albeit, thinner ply.

Jack's 4 choices have merit, but I would change #3 in my experience. I've put 2000 honest miles in "cheap ply" kayaks and pirogues, and never had the urge to "kick myself in the butt" over having made that choice. They've done all I ever asked from them. Less than the best should not be construed as "worse" or "unusable".

One more thought. Long-time forum members know that beekeeper and Tx river rat have built maybe 25 boats between them over the years. The majority of those builds were covered in detail on this forum. A large percentage of those builds used cheap ply. I have the sneaking suspicion that if they had to pay for ply that cost 2-3 times as much, we might not have had the pleasure of seeing that many builds and seeing the different design concepts tried.

Good advice. Even glassed luan will make a good usable boat IF you take care of it. We've 3 glassed luan uncle johns around 10 years old still being used.

 

[oldsparkey]

Good advice. Even glassed luan will make a good usable boat IF you take care of it. We've 3 glassed luan uncle johns around 10 years old still being used.

Same here , the boats I made from it and even the ones that I used 1/8th inch door skins on are still around. All epoxy saturated and glassed inside and out. That's from 2000 to today.
I know of three for sure since a neighbor has one and close friends have the other two. Can't say for sure about the others since they are out of this area and even out of state. No one has complained.

 

[TerryKing]

Hi Everyone,

Well the Jon Boat with the Problematic Plywood is on the water. Not painted yet! Real Soon Now. Epoxy needs UV protection... See:

https://arduinoinfo.mywikis.net/wiki/Boat_Building_Jon_Boat#THE_ACTUAL_BOAT_ON_THE_WATER

That page has build details but I need to edit/add last details. I will add a section on the engine/drive system soon; learned a few things there!

It IS a boat and it does float and paddle and run under power. The Jon Boat configuration is SO easy to launch and beach. Mary Alice didn't even get her feet wet I will keep looking for plywood trouble.. All of it has glass and epoxy both sides; the bottom has heavy roving plus glass layer.

I am about to put longitudinal runners on the bottom for abrasion and added strength. What do you think about material?? I was thinking hardwood like cherry or oak. But a guy had an interesting suggestion: that newfangled deck board that is made out of recycled plastic. Pretty tough. Abrasion resistant. I might rip some 1" by 1" runners and router round-over edges. SS screws from inside of right length. Lots of epoxy in slightly-oversize screw holes from inside. Hmmm.....
UPDATE: I found the PVC decking IS often curved with some heat.. Even sideways to make curved deck sections. So bending for my rocker should be workable...

Thanks for all the help here!

 

[Kayak Jack]

The plastic deck boards may be too stiff to bend and fit your rocker? They are certainly too expensive to bend and fit a wallet. But, they wrap around a whole bank account readily.
if you wear out pine strips, you would be joining a group with very, very few people in it.

 

[PeteStaehling]

I see that your Jon Boat with long tail drive was on the Ochlocknee River. That isn't too far from home for me here in Tallahassee unless there is another Ochlocknee River. I have not been getting out much during the pandemic, but I'd be interested in seeing that boat some time.

Pete

 

[TerryKing]

I see that your Jon Boat with long tail drive was on the Ochlocknee River. That isn't too far from home for me here in Tallahassee unless there is another Ochlocknee River. I have not been getting out much during the pandemic, but I'd be interested in seeing that boat some time.

Pete

Hi Pete, We MIGHT be going back up near Tallahassee in 7-10 days. We have a friend at the Making Awesome makerspace there and we might be dropping off a couple of our Arduino/Electronics kits. Maybe send me an email: [email protected]

 

[oldbuffpilot]

Hi Everyone,

Well the Jon Boat with the Problematic Plywood is on the water. Not painted yet! Real Soon Now. Epoxy needs UV protection... See:

https://arduinoinfo.mywikis.net/wiki/Boat_Building_Jon_Boat#THE_ACTUAL_BOAT_ON_THE_WATER

That page has build details but I need to edit/add last details. I will add a section on the engine/drive system soon; learned a few things there!

It IS a boat and it does float and paddle and run under power. The Jon Boat configuration is SO easy to launch and beach. Mary Alice didn't even get her feet wet I will keep looking for plywood trouble.. All of it has glass and epoxy both sides; the bottom has heavy roving plus glass layer.

I am about to put longitudinal runners on the bottom for abrasion and added strength. What do you think about material?? I was thinking hardwood like cherry or oak. But a guy had an interesting suggestion: that newfangled deck board that is made out of recycled plastic. Pretty tough. Abrasion resistant. I might rip some 1" by 1" runners and router round-over edges. SS screws from inside of right length. Lots of epoxy in slightly-oversize screw holes from inside. Hmmm.....
UPDATE: I found the PVC decking IS often curved with some heat.. Even sideways to make curved deck sections. So bending for my rocker should be workable...

Thanks for all the help here!

Thanks for such a comprehensive build post. I know it is time consuming and not easy. BUT it may inspire others to build.

 

[TerryKing]

Thanks for such a comprehensive build post. I know it is time consuming and not easy. BUT it may inspire others to build.

Thanks! I will get to the drive system stuff soon. There WILL be a rainy day in northern Florida soon.
I DO like writing how-to stuff, as you can see on all the other stuff on http://ArduinoInfo.Info

Had a nice run yesterday across Indian Pass to St. Vincent Island. I never had a boat before that I could run in shallow water, and run right onto the beach and not worry about the prop..
Google Maps
It also paddles nicely with kayak paddle; would row nicely when I add oarlocks.

 

[Kayak Jack]

Sounds like a boat well adapted to your use. Good job!

 

[oldbuffpilot]

Thanks! I will get to the drive system stuff soon. There WILL be a rainy day in northern Florida soon.
I DO like writing how-to stuff, as you can see on all the other stuff on http://ArduinoInfo.Info

Had a nice run yesterday across Indian Pass to St. Vincent Island. I never had a boat before that I could run in shallow water, and run right onto the beach and not worry about the prop..
Google Maps
It also paddles nicely with kayak paddle; would row nicely when I add oarlocks.

Thanks.I'll spend some time there.Looks real well organized

 

[BEARS BUDDY]

Thanks! I will get to the drive system stuff soon. There WILL be a rainy day in northern Florida soon.
I DO like writing how-to stuff, as you can see on all the other stuff on http://ArduinoInfo.Info

Had a nice run yesterday across Indian Pass to St. Vincent Island. I never had a boat before that I could run in shallow water, and run right onto the beach and not worry about the prop..
Google Maps
It also paddles nicely with kayak paddle; would row nicely when I add oarlocks.

Great job Terry. Seeing this may cost me money for supplies to copy it.