I think I figured this Ogeechee River boat out. Narrow stern for easy paddling. Also , with the boat facing downstream, the paddler would not be fighting the current as much to keep the boat in position. Central compartment for fish. Sliding front seat to allow the trot line handler/helper to balance the load. Wide front to carry a large payload. Large rake front and back to make getting out on a sloping bank easier. Unusual characteristics on work boats are almost always there for reason and have evolved over time.
Not tiny house..........tiny boat
- Thread starter jdupre'
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Jack, a pickup truck is great. But, sometimes you need a wrecker truck, a bucket truck, a delivery truck, an ice cream truck (Yeah!) , a welding truck, a mail truck......................... the right tool for the job.
I tried the backwards thing this morning. Tried the seat in various positions. Nothing seemed to help. Paddling the standard way was better. You never know.......you have to try.
Was not really comparing the two boats for performance, other than theorizing that they were both blunt on the ends and that more rocker may help. Thought maybe reversing the ends would help trim it better since you had more rocker in the front.
The Ogee is a specialized design. I like it for it's stability and room with two people fishing. I could refine it some and make it even better for my use. We don't run nets or traps so we could use less beam and increase ease of paddling.
When you build the next tiney boat what changes do you think you might do?
beekeeper
The Ogee is a specialized design. I like it for it's stability and room with two people fishing. I could refine it some and make it even better for my use. We don't run nets or traps so we could use less beam and increase ease of paddling.
When you build the next tiney boat what changes do you think you might do?
beekeeper
I would probably build something more in line with the Pit Pan, but a with narrower ends. Narrowing the ends above the waterline doesn't hurt buoyancy too much. Rake, front and back, is basically a punt design. That design is found all over the world. Something similar to this. I'm torn whether to go with a traditional build or stitch and glue.
Another off-the-wall question. Could you have the stem ends pointed at the waterline, and wide on top? Or, maybe that complicates the build more than you want.
Pointed stem ends at the waterline would be the best. Most definitely would complicate the build. It's a double edged sword,though. Pointed stems means less buoyancy there. Less buoyancy there means it has to be increased somewhere else to keep stability the same. Making the boat wider or longer takes care of that. It also makes it heavier, longer and/or wider and more cumbersome. That gets you farther and farther away from what I was after.
Given plywood comes in 8 ft sheets, an 8 ft boat fits comfortably in the back of my truck, 8 ft boats are pretty light and easy to handle and store, the self-imposed use of 1 sheet of ply to get a light, stable boat, I think I've accomplished the ideal boat. Not perfect, mind you, but ideal for what I was after.
Given plywood comes in 8 ft sheets, an 8 ft boat fits comfortably in the back of my truck, 8 ft boats are pretty light and easy to handle and store, the self-imposed use of 1 sheet of ply to get a light, stable boat, I think I've accomplished the ideal boat. Not perfect, mind you, but ideal for what I was after.
I missed the single sheet limitation. An interesting challenge. Did you practice in miniature first, with cardboard, or maybe stencil paper?
There's a pic of the model in the first post. When I started bending the bow end in, I just had the feeling that it needed to be a bit fuller than the model. Just a feeling. In hindsight, I could have gone a little smaller with the bow and it would have given me a inch or so more rake in front.
The one sheet limitation was just a "thing" . I did have to use a couple of smaller pieces I had on hand. The one sheet was all I bought special for the project. I had the rest of wood on hand.
The one sheet limitation was just a "thing" . I did have to use a couple of smaller pieces I had on hand. The one sheet was all I bought special for the project. I had the rest of wood on hand.
There are several "things" in boat design and building that make it interesting and fun, sometimes challenging and frustrating. There are at least three principles. 1. Change some"thing" and it will effect some other "thing", maybe several things. 2.Evolution has solved most "things", or has determined why a boat is what it is. 3. "You have to go to know."
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In your last picture the model has 4 pegs sticking up , 2 at each deck.
Do you plan on doing the same in the actual boat when you make it ????
Food for thought...............
What would happen if you hit something ( a submerged stump or log ) and fell forward , especially if you were standing and poling the boat.
Or if something rocked the boat ( Poling over a submerged Gator and surprising it ) and fell backwards. It looks like there might be a strong possibility of impaling your self ( in the chest or the back ) in either action. Accidents do happen.
Do you plan on doing the same in the actual boat when you make it ????
Food for thought...............
What would happen if you hit something ( a submerged stump or log ) and fell forward , especially if you were standing and poling the boat.
Or if something rocked the boat ( Poling over a submerged Gator and surprising it ) and fell backwards. It looks like there might be a strong possibility of impaling your self ( in the chest or the back ) in either action. Accidents do happen.
Correct,Bee. I read where people compare boat designs and say " ....two boats, exactly alike, but one has X and one has Y....." . Well, they're not exactly alike then. A boat say, with a pointed stern has to start changing shape about amidships in order to get the sides to come in that far. Completely different boats. From the hours of stuff I've read about design, most of the differences we talk about are in low single digit percentages. I'll paraphrase John Winters, a well-known canoe designer "After a designer has tweaked and changed his design and gotten a very respectable extra 5% decrease in hull resistance, the average decent paddler would probably not notice the difference. One year's worth of banging and scraping of the canoe bottom causes more change than that."
I just did the math. A 5% reduction in hull resistance MIGHT give you an increase of one tenth of one mph. 4 hours of STEADY 3.5 mph paddling (14 miles) would give you less than a half mile of advantage. Two OUNCES of extra effort per stroke would make up for that. When's the last time anyone here paddled (not floated with the current) 14 miles in a whole day, let alone 4 hours?
Most of the design elements you read about mostly come into play in racing or serious long distance touring. At about 3 mph, there's very little difference in a short, stubby kayak and a 16' sleek touring kayak. Now, if you insist on paddling that stubby kayak at 3.5 mph, then, yes it would be harder to paddle and flat wear you out.
What I take away from all this is ..........Don't sweat the small stuff. OK, getting off my soap box now.
I just did the math. A 5% reduction in hull resistance MIGHT give you an increase of one tenth of one mph. 4 hours of STEADY 3.5 mph paddling (14 miles) would give you less than a half mile of advantage. Two OUNCES of extra effort per stroke would make up for that. When's the last time anyone here paddled (not floated with the current) 14 miles in a whole day, let alone 4 hours?
Most of the design elements you read about mostly come into play in racing or serious long distance touring. At about 3 mph, there's very little difference in a short, stubby kayak and a 16' sleek touring kayak. Now, if you insist on paddling that stubby kayak at 3.5 mph, then, yes it would be harder to paddle and flat wear you out.
What I take away from all this is ..........Don't sweat the small stuff. OK, getting off my soap box now.
Who would have thought that one boat, so small, would stir so much conversation? Good thing it isn't bigger!
Lots to learn, even on a boat this small. My thing is I hear people talk about minute changes to a design , thinking one subtle change will make this gigantic difference in performance. The difference in my stubby, square ended , non-streamlined mini barge and an average slightly scraped and scratched 16' kayak is about one and a half mph comfortable cruising speed. We're talking opposite ends of the performance spectrum. It takes major design changes to net significant changes in performance. Yes, a round bottomed 16' kayak is theoretically faster than a flat bottomed kayak. Theoretically, if you take a half bottle of water instead of a full bottle with you, and leave the heavy sandwich home in favor of a lighter energy bar, your boat will be faster.
I would probably build something more in line with the Pit Pan, but a with narrower ends. Narrowing the ends above the waterline doesn't hurt buoyancy too much. Rake, front and back, is basically a punt design. That design is found all over the world. Something similar to this. I'm torn whether to go with a traditional build or stitch and glue.
I like the lines of this design. Is it lapstreak? What is the conflict between traditional build, and stich and glue for you?
bee
That model looks like a lapstrake. I was mostly looking at the shape and design and not the materials. I like the carpentry part of a traditional build, but paint and varnish doesn't give the protection of a layer of glass and epoxy, in my opinion. Wood moves, and when it does water can creep inside around the painted parts. Bumps and scrapes that a glassed hull shakes off, can expose raw wood easily on a traditional build. Not a big advantage, but an epoxy/glass boat CAN be a little lighter and still have adequate strength. Paint and varnish are a pretty good match for the way most of use boats. I would not want a daily use wooden boat for making a living. Fiberglass or aluminum would be my choice for that.
I would have to compare it to keeping old leather boots oiled and/or greased and carefully dried between uses or squirting a little water on your rubber boots and kicking them in the corner. Tradition vs convenience.
I would have to compare it to keeping old leather boots oiled and/or greased and carefully dried between uses or squirting a little water on your rubber boots and kicking them in the corner. Tradition vs convenience.