New pirogue .....hybrid build

[jdupre']

Well, I did check into getting some quality plywood. Robichaux Lumber in Raceland only had fir marine ply. I don't want to use that stuff again. The only other option I have is meranti ply at Riverside Lumber in New Orleans. I'd have to pay 4-5 times as much, make a 160 mile round trip and decend into the cesspool which is New Orleans. No thanks. I'd rather spend an hour or two more strainghtening up this pine ply. OR......I could just buy a kit and have it shipped to my door for $700 to $1000. No thanks to that too.

Jack, let me ask you something. It is pretty obvious you like the "best" stuff, rather it be boats or whiskey or whatever. Absolutely nothing wrong with that. Let's say your favorite single malt scotch keeps going up from, say, $45 a bottle to $245 a bottle. I'm sure there would be a point where you'd say " Nope, ain't paying that much for whiskey. " Well, we all have "that point" in most things we buy. Some points are lower and some points are higher. Not right or wrong......just different.

 

[Kayak Jack]

You’re absolutely right, Joey. All rules are really only guidelines - it’s all dependent on the situation. And there is a range of acceptability. The outer edges of those ranges are more doubtful and less datisfactory.

And, I haven’t bought any plywood for boats in 12-13 years. So, I might have fits of apoplexy today. Seventy to seventy five years ago, my Dad built some boats. If he looked at the price of even poor plywood today, and compared it to what he was paying for good plywood then, he would jump straight up about 20 feet.

Some things I’ll scrimp on, others I don’t. Friends lf mine like cigars that sell for $8-$20 apiece. Mine cost 75 cents. Other friends buy wines that sell for $15-30 a liter. Mine costs about $2.50. As Popeye sez, “Ya pays yer kwarter, and ya takes yer chances.”

 

[jdupre']

I'm the same. I'd gladly eat a Sonic burger than pay $25.00 for one at a fancy restaurant. . I'm sure there are $25.00 hamburgers in New York or California.

 

[jdupre']

When I said " rounded stems" that's what I meant. I want the boat to have that old dugout pirogue feel. Never mind the man in the window. He's harmless.

That's why I'm doing the hybrid build. I guess it could be done, but a traditional type stem with that much curve sweeping into the bottom line might be a bit touchy. I'll pull the stems together with wire and epoxy and glass them in. The chines will take off from there. The chines allow me to forego a total glass job while still giving me strength. As I'm looking at the picture, I'm quite sure the bow height is going to be trimmed back a bit.

OK, about this time, Beekeeper's mind is going a mile a minute.

 

[Kayak Jack]

Wood, taking the shape of an idea from an imaginative mind.

 

[jdupre']

"Imaginative".....that would be a polite way of saying it. Ha!

 

[Kayak Jack]

Imaginative, inventive, seeking, learning, and of course somewhat quirky.
As I said before, I wish we didn’t live so far away.

 

[jdupre']

Jack, move down to Louisiana. 12 months of flying . paddling and bike riding. No snow to deal with. No freezing temps for weeks on end. Best food on the planet.

 

[Kayak Jack]

I lived in Louisiana for a year and a half before we shipped out to Nam. I’m a bit familiar. I, in turn, invite you to move to Michigan. No fire ants, killer bees, copperheads, coral snakes, cotton mouths, gators, etc. And, bigger fish here. Muskies, sturgeon, northern pike. These guys will take your pirogue for a sleigh ride, providing your line doesn’t break!

Aww, what the heck - I think we’re both fated to stick close to home. Both areas are great and have their unique advantages and disadvantages. Besides, I’m not real sure the societies, and especially the law enforcement types, would let us live near each other. Aye god - just think of the mischief we could get into! JD and Andy would try to calm us down. But. . . . .

 

[jdupre']

I can get along with most of the fauna. Now if you tell me there are no mosquitoes, then my interest is piqued.

 

[Kayak Jack]

There are a few mosquitoes, but none as hearty as the ones in Louisiana. But, Joey, the robin read breast is Michigan’s state bird. You’d have to give up shooting them with your blowgun.

Another thing. You’d have to get used to is the water - you can see through it. You can read the date on a dime in 20 feet of water. And bald eagles, kingfishers, Canadian geese, mallards fly alongside and overhead. And, chili tastes a LOT better when there’s snow on the ground.

And, this is Paul Bunyan territory. I used to sharpen his axe when I was a kid. There used to be a crooked river in these parts. Paul hooked up Babe, his blue ix, to that crooked river. Then, just fir a joke, he towed that straight river right around into a round rivef. No inlets and no outlets, just a river flowing round and round. Handy for trips; no car shuttles needed, no carrying heavy gear along. Camp at the same site every night.

but, maybe you wouldn’t like it.

 

[beekeeper]

When I said " rounded stems" that's what I meant. I want the boat to have that old dugout pirogue feel. Never mind the man in the window. He's harmless.

That's why I'm doing the hybrid build. I guess it could be done, but a traditional type stem with that much curve sweeping into the bottom line might be a bit touchy. I'll pull the stems together with wire and epoxy and glass them in.

OK, about this time, Beekeeper's mind is going a mile a minute.

View attachment 1353

I like the shape. Your idea of stitching the ends and pouring epoxy in the stems will probably work better than making wooden stem pieces.
I did these for a strip build that had ends shaped similar to yours.
Make a plywood form and laminate strips around it.

Plane the stem angles to mach the sides.

 

[Kayak Jack]

See all those wood shavings? They can be used to make fire starters. Press them into a muffin tin, pour melted parafin around it. Makes a “cookie”. Cut the cookie into quarters, because it doesn’t take a whole one to do the job.
HINT# 1: Also carry matches.
HINT# 2: If you want to start a fire by rubbing two sticks together, it’s a good idea if one of the sticks is a match.

 

[jdupre']

Bee, that looks like a bit more work doing it that way. I like simple. The way I want to do it SEEMS simple..........but, we'll see.

 

[jdupre']

Yippee! The brown truck delivered my epoxy at 1:00 this evening. Had the side butt splices in by 2:00. This build has shifted into high gear.

I mixed a 6oz dose of epoxy and used the excess to do one of the bottom panels and the rest went on one of the side panels. Tomorrow, I'll sand the splices and put another layer of glass on them. Just a little more insurance.

 

[beekeeper]

I agree. Your idea seems easier. Not sure how the chine logs will meet.
It might be interesting to place the cardboard template onto a 2"X4" and see if a stem could be made. Even if it takes a wider board the waste wood could be cut away. Might be easier than you think.

 

[jdupre']

Bee, there is really no need for a stem piece. The Swamper was built stitch and glue with a very similar approach at the junction of the bow and bottom. The bow will get pulled together with epoxy and cloth. From there on back, the chines will take over the side/bottom joint. I could probably get away with ending the chines 3"-6" away from the bow joint. The cloth will overlap that joint somewhat and will actually be stronger than either the chine or the stitch and glue construction.

I've never seen this done, that's why I call it a hybrid build.

The epoxy is setting up. It's not sticky anymore. There's always a little apprehension for me about the epoxy not curing.

 

[beekeeper]

Joey, I'm not disagreeing or saying a wooden stem is needed. only thinking and putting forth the idea that it can be done.
A wooden stem can be glued/epoxied, nailed, and glassed over. Without running destructive test I would propose that it would be as strong. Using epoxy and fiberglass is the way to build if you don't want to do the wood working. That it is why most boats are built that way today.
In your picture of the side panel and the cardboard template, how tall/wide is the plywood and how much is the cut back at the chine/bottom?

 

[jdupre']

Initially, from the center to the ends of the full length plywood sheet, it was 3.5". The height at the bow is approx 12.5". With all the straightening I had to do, all that changed some fraction of an inch. By the time I fair out the chine curve, it will have about a 3.25" reverse curve. The sides should come out a bit better than 9" high.......plenty enough for me. All those little changes don't bother me one hoot. It WILL come out to be a nicely curved, good handling, good paddling boat.

Think about this. Only traditional wooden boats that use glue and fasteners have stems. Stitch and glue wood boats, fiberglass boats and welded metal boats don't use stems because the sides can be glued/welded to each other. I could definitely do it, but I don't see any need or advantage.

I like tradtional building as much as the next guy. But boat builders of yore dropped outdated technology like a hot potato when something else came along. Weldwood glue was used by the gallons in boats up until the 60's and 70's. Weldwood glue is a form of plastic.....hardly traditional. Actually, there should be no glue of any kind if you want to be stricktly traditional. That's what's great about this hobby. You can go as old school or as modern as you like. Heck, seedtick has been using epoxy as his glue of choice these last several years.

 

[beekeeper]

Kind of funny you and I discussing "outdated" technology and materials when the whole concept of wooden boats is considered "outdated".
Many things have became outdated because they are no longer are readily available, not because they are not useful or relevant. How relevant or useful something is depends on what game you want to play and what the rules are. If I am fishing a bass tournament then I want my old Bumblebee bass boat. If I want to fish up the bayou where there are no boat launches, logs and etc. my pirogue is the boat is useful and still relevant.