I have started the Bayou Skiff....

[oldsparkey]

I have started the Bayou Skiff from Uncle John.......

Anyone who has made a Uncle John Pirogue will know this picture but there is something different in it. Only one stem piece and a big , wide chunk for the back called a transom , also the base of the ribs are longer.

I have epoxy saturated the inside of the transom and will do the same with the side panels and bottom as progress proceeds. Off to Home Depot in the morning to get the plywood........This way everything inside the boat will be glassed as it is put together. ( I hate glassing the inside and with more ribs in the Skiff .... this looks like the best bet for me to do ).

Monday , I will be calling Larry at Raka and getting the three gallon epoxy kit , one fast and one slow on the hardener to make a medium hardener. Since I am just about out of epoxy.

1...Also getting 4 oz glass , 5 yards , of the 30 inch to do the sides and transom (inside ) with before attaching them.
2...The 40 inch , 6 oz glass ( 4 yards) to do just the outside of the bottom with before doing the whole outside of the boat , I want double glass on the outside of the bottom since I do not plan on the skegs/runners on the bottom.... I want it as slick as a baby's bottom
3...Then the 4oz glass at 60 inches and 5 yards to eventually do the outside ,sides and transom with at one time.
4...Going to try the Maple Flour this time since it is darker for the fillets on the inside and outside ( Yes Outside) of the boat.
5...Getting 10 yards of the 3 inch tape in case I need it for sealing stuff and reinforcing it.
........ Not sure of the coating on the bottom , it's a toss up between the Interlux Teflon Poly paint or epoxy and graphite ... either makes a tough and slippery bottom. ( I'll figure that out later when I have to cross that bridge )

Also I do not plan on the seat boards ( At this time ) since the seat Uncle John has and I dreamed up can be raised ( or done like beekeerer did with a riser under it ) and used in the skiff or the pirogue you have.... I like the idea of a movable seat that can be set across the one rib to row it looking back or just turned around when rowing forward ( two sets of oar locks would be needed , I am getting three ) . Then the rest of the time it can be moved to balance the boat when sailing or using the motor.
Plus without the seats being permanently attached to the sides , it opens the boat up for camping for one person. Just run it up on a sand bar or mud flat and set up a cot in it for the night. Providing there is no where to hang a hammock..... Yes , that can happen to you when on the water.

Yep... Three sets of oar locks ........ No I will not say what the third one is for at this time.

The rub rail , on the outside is going to be two 1 1/2 by 1/4 inch and 16 foot long lattice strips epoxied saturated and the epoxied and glassed together giving me 1/2 inch by 1 1/2 for them with no joints anywhere in there , one solid chunk and laminated which should be stronger. More work on my part but this is going to be a slow build and I have the time to do it.

As I have said , this is a slow and deliberate build so don't be looking for updates every day. I figure that just attaching the bottom to the sides and ribs ( a simple one day process ) will take 4 or 5 days the way I am thinking of doing it.

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Different thoughts , for there needs..........

All the guy's have a different way of doing it , I will stay with the original idea but make some changes for my needs , not to the original design/shape , just how it will be completed for me. The more ways it can be done , all the better for anyone wanting to make one , there way.
Trust me on this , All of us ( sometimes) make the 1st one the way it should be then we say ... What if I do this or that .... Then we make another one that way. Heck we have that 1st one to use while building the other. :wink:
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Chuck....
PS , I hope it is not a secret but Larry ( the owner ) at Raka is also building a Bayou Skiff. If you have no idea of what a Bayou Skiff is that we are talking about then click here.
http://www.unclejohns.com/bysk14 When there then go down to pictures from builders for more to look at.

 

[captaindoug]

When you pre-saturate and or glass the pieces prior to epoxying them all together, does that mean you have to wash the blush off and sand each joint before assembly? One more, you mentioned laminating the rub rails with glass and epoxy. Do you mean you are going to wet out a strip of fiberglass and clamp together or use bonding epoxy with a strip of glass in it?

 

[oldsparkey]

The rub rails , epoxy two of them together ( the pine 1 1/2 by 1/4 inch lattice stripes) and when they are on the boat , sand them and cover with a strip of glass to help strengthen the wood and reduce any wear on it. ( Pine is a soft wood)

As far as glassing the side pieces , bottom and transom and them putting them together , sand the finished part in the area where it will be epoxied together. No need to sand all of it after glassing till it needs to be varnished. It you are referring to the saturated part , that can go up to 72 hours before being glassed without any problems.( With the epoxy I use ) I normally do a light sanding since the epoxy does fill the wood fibers and make some stand up like whiskers.

Uncle Johns boat came out at 85 pounds and I guessed it at 80 pounds before he weighed it.
Here is what he told me ..... " The seats weigh 10, I'm not sure what the dry storage compartment, seat rails and runners weigh but it probable would come in around 50 to 60 with out them "

Chuck.

 

[oldsparkey]

This one might be heavier then I was trying for.
Went to Home Depot today and looked at the 1/4 inch by 4 x 8 panels. They had the Luann and looking a little more I found some Oak panels the same size but a lot more in price then the Luann. They are a lot heavier but they are some nice panels ( really solid and no voids ) so I got three. Had one of the guys slice them into the size's I need and brought them home. That is the nice thing about Home Depot , those guys are more then willing to lend a hand when you ask them.

Figured , since I plan on having a small motor and trailing ( will get the trailer from Harbor Freight later when the boat is done) this one and to go with some wood that weighs more and is really solid.

I did manage to get a layer of glass epoxied on the transom today. Working on cutting out the battens for the ribs and doing them the next few days. I cut everything with a hand saw so I am slow on the cutting. Have to have 16 of those suckers.

Chuck.
This will not be one of my 30 pound boats. :roll:

 

[Bellybuster]

good luck on this build, I'm jealous. This boat really suits my river fishing needs but alas I have no time right now. Life gets in the way sometimes.
I'll be watchin anxiously though

 

[oldsparkey]

Back to boat construction......................

Making the gussets and matching the width of the ribs is not a problem. I dry fitted a couple of them and found a problem. By matching the width of the ribs they ones for ribs #1 #2 and #4 need to match the outside angle of the angle on the ribs or you will have a 1/4 piece of wood not letting the side boards match/mate up with the ribs and there angle.
#3 is not a problem since it is a 90 degree surface on the outside of it.

The above is caused by trying to match up the inside of the ribs with the edge of the gussets for a flat surface , if you want some overlap on the inside , no problems.

Now that they are cut out , I have to sand them and round of the corners with a hand sander. Then when Larry gets the epoxy to me , I can start putting things together.

Two per stack and two stacks ( one front and one back) for each rib.

Getting this Skiff together is going to be like the Pygmy eating the Elephant he killed. A white hunter came up on the pygmy and his kill , He asked the pygmy how was he going to eat the elephant all by himself , The pygmy replied ..... One Bite at a Time. :lol:

Chuck.

 

[oldsparkey]

Talked with Larry at Raka when I placed an order for the epoxy and glass , using the 3.25 tight woven glass in place of the 4 oz normal weave and some of the 6 oz. If anything I may go with a double layer of the 3.25 on the bottom.

Since he is making a Skiff we were comparing notes , He is making his from Luann since he wants it light weight. Like me he is leaving off the runners on the bottom and if he needs to stiffen it up one runner down the inside of the skiff between the ribs. I told him about the oak and he reminded me it will be a heavier boat with it but as I told him , I plan on trailering it so a little extra weight does not matter. Plus I am trying to keep from having to do anything to stiffen up the bottom , either under or inside it. Besides I am going to beef up the transom and some other areas , this will not be one of my light weight boats.
The motor will make it go faster then my paddling would ever match. Running up on a stump or log .... As they say ... An ounce of prevention beats a pound of cure.

I mentioned to him about the 1/8th inch Luann I normal use for my boats and that would make a really light boat but would have to be stiffen on the bottom or just use the 1/8th for the sides and 1/4 for the bottom. With that he wanted the address for them. If I wasn't going to have a motor on it ........ You know how I would be making it , I would be doing my normal thing.

By the way , Larry has already purchased a Electric motor for his when it is made , He said it is a 2 HP thrust and he got it from Wall Mart , anyway I think that is where he said he found it for less then $400.00 I asked him if he was going to put the battery in the bow as a counter weight and run the cables back to the motor , not sure at this time , but he is building some extra dry storage areas in his.

6 months down the road or should I say river , it will be interesting to see how many different way's one of the Skiffs will be made.

Chuck
PS. Besides I knew Jack would like for me to admit that at times I do use stiffer wood.

 

[oldsparkey]

Well it is one of those days.
Got the little Ryobi sander out and started on the gussets to round out the ends and smooth the cuts , going good till the part that shakes came apart , put it back together and started again , again it came apart , put it back together and again it came apart :twisted: ...... In the trash the little sander went.
Almost makes me think of the one Christmas when the wife got me a Sears sander to use on a boat , went threw three of them in two days. The fourth one was just a lousy as the other three but it did last almost 2 hours , you might have an idea of what I think of the Sears sanders. Leaving Sears for the last time I got the Ryobi from Home Depot and that sander sure has done a lot of sanding over the last 4 or 5 years.

So off to Home Depot for an replacement , today , got one and came home , got busy sanding and went to change the paper and the one lever on the side broke off so there was no way to change the paper. Back to Home Depot and made an exchange , got another Ryobi and decide to call it quits on the sanding today , tomorrow has to be better.

Did the rest by hand....... Not much to show for a day of building but every little bit helps. 16 little gussets standing in a row. :lol:

As long as I get something done on the skiff everyday , it will come together for me.
Kicking an idea around in my head .... If the sides of the Gussets extend over the ribs then when I do the fillet for the seams , why not fill them for extra reinforcement , a little more never hurts. It would all blend in together , the fillets on the sides would blend in to the fillet filling the center of the gussets and then back to to finish the fillet along the sides of the ribs. More things to do and longer to do the build but I'm in no hurry.

Chuck.

 

[oldsparkey]

Called Larry at Raka on the 14 (yesterday during the lunch hour as I posted on this thread ) and on the 15th ( today) Now I have the epoxy , glass , Maple wood flour plus the two additional pumps for the epoxy since the ones I am using are over 9 years old. ( Wanted a back up set of pumps , the two to one mix )

Time for me to get busy using that epoxy and the rest for building a boat.......

Chuck.

 

[Bellybuster]

two words...Porter Cable. I used to run a Military wood shop and used it as a measure for buying tools. Those Porter Cable 5" random orbit sanders would go 6-8 hours a day and we would auction them off still running at the end of the year. I'm still using one

 

[oldsparkey]

AGAaaaaaaaaaaaaagggggggggggg

The wife came home , noticed the new sander sitting on the table and asked what was going on .......... So I told her about all the fun today , that I had.

In that quiet way only Vermin ... "O"oop's Women have .... "O" that old one was broken when I used it , there is a new one out there with the Lawn Mower in the shed for it.

Me.... All the sanders , drills and the rest are in the work shop....... Her ... I moved some of them into the shed with the mower. Then why in the .... *%&(*&^#$#@@ %&)_(^^#@ .....did you leave the broken one where it is normally at and not toss it.

Her .... Toss What ??????
I give up. :roll:

Chuck.

 

[captaindoug]

Looking at all those gussets standing in a row, up until now I thought each of the Bayou Skiff's rib sets were at a different angle. I guess this is indeed a lot like the pirogue, just a bit wider.

 

[oldsparkey]

Looking at all those gussets standing in a row, up until now I thought each of the Bayou Skiff's rib sets were at a different angle. I guess this is indeed a lot like the pirogue, just a bit wider.

All of the ribs are the same angle , just a different length ( width) on the center.
Getting the side boards glued together , actually epoxied with a piece of glass over them , butt joint jointed not scarfed.

 

[oldsparkey]

I am going to have to change things on the Skiffs build and revert back to the old way of doing one or the way I normally build a boat. Instead of glassing the panels and bottom before they are attached.

Going back to the old way of putting everything together , epoxy saturating the seams then doing the fillets to round them out so the glass has gentler angles to go over. Then finally saturating the whole inside and after it sets up then glassing the whole inside of the boat at one time , no need to tape the seams that way. The whole inside of the boat will be taped with one chunk of 3.25 tight woven glass.

Dam I am happy Larry talked me into the 60 inch tight woven for the inside. Got the same for the outside. ( Plus I have a lot of it here , left over, from all the other boats)

The weather over here has determined that change in my plans plus the limited space in my working area , there is no way I can lay out the side panels and the bottom to totally glass them after they are butt jointed together and still have an area to move around in. One or the other of them would be in the way .... I'll put the whole thing together and tackle it as a whole item as I normally do.

The up side is I have managed to glass the inside part of the transom so that is done. When doing the inside of the boat , run some of the glass up over the fillets for it and seal it.

It looks like the end of January ( with some luck , January and Feb are the cold times around here ) when it will be completed , providing the weather lets me work on it each day , cold weather the epoxy likes to stay in the container. The wife does not like the idea of me bringing it in the house to warm it up so it will flow.

 

[oldsparkey]

A Different thought............ Butt Joints or Scarf Joints.

While waiting the the butt joints to cure so I can flip them and do the backside .... A thought came to me. :shock:

This Bayou Skiff i am making will be longer then the original one that was made by Uncle John.

The simple reason is he used a scarf joint and I am using butt joints on my build. How does this happen you are asking .... there is a simple reason for it ....... SUBTRACTION.

You take two boards the same length and do the scarf joints and mate them up ..... One board , lets say 12 inches stays the same , the other drops the inches for the scarf joint , lets say 2 inches .... That end of the board has to move two inches over the other one. So you have a board at 12 inches and one at 10 inches to make the joint. Or a 22 inch board and not a 24 inch one

Take two 12 inch boards and butt joint them together , you have two 12 inch boards joined or a 24 inch one.

This is something no one has thought of or bothered to say anything about on here except for this fool while thinking about things on the build for the Bayou Skiff while waiting for the epoxy to set up.

I'm trying to make a build site so when someone is thinking of building this Skiff or another different boat they will have something to look at and then decide on how to do theirs with your help.

Chuck.

 

[captaindoug]

Just so I get what you mean, you both start out with 16' (2x8-0'=16'-0). Now you butt joint them, but Uncle John scarfs his. Using his 2" overlap method to make the scarfs, he loses 4" due to the scarf overlap = 15'-8, while you get the full 16'-0. Either gets you plenty for a 14'-0 boat though, right? Or do you mean you are going to make yours to the fullest extent the plywood will allow?

 

[seedtick]

you just lose the 2" once, not twice, in the scarf

if you're really interested in maintaining maximum length, don't use the standard UJ cutback on the sides. I believed and Chuck confirmed, that the cutback was 45 degrees or 12 on 12. Reduce that cutback to 6" on each end of a pirogue and you've gained 12" of waterline length. Or a 6" gain on the skiff

that's a lot more than the difference between a scarf and butt joint

that's the fun of build it yourself, tweak it the way you want..........

 

[skbilly]

What does that do to the rocker, and the side flare angle?

 

[seedtick]

side flare angle is fixed by the ribs

a 12" cut back will give you slightly more rocker than a smaller cut back because you're bringing a shorter board to a point with the 12"
cutback

it's hard for me to explain three dimensions in text, but picture two boards sitting on edge on a table, at a fixed flare angle and a fixed distance apart (rib side angle and width). As you bring the ends of the board together, the ends rise up off the table, thus creating the rocker. Now, if you shorten the distance from the fixed point (rib) to the end of the board and bring the ends together again, the rocker will increase.

with a 12" cutback, you're bringing together effectively shorter boards than with a 6 or 9" cutback, so you'll have more rocker

boatbuilding is a series of tradeoffs, e.g. there's more than one way to lose rocker and there's more than one way to gain it back. But even the amount of rocker is subjective - more rocker is easier to turn, less rocker is better tracking - what's the "best"? Depends on your application and personal preference.

 

[oldsparkey]

Another thought from the Nut House....... On the Butt Joints.

I epoxied and glassed the one side of the side panels and used plastic over them and a weight to keep them flat. Flipping the panels over , I epoxy saturated the wood ( in the picture below) and see no reason to use a piece of plastic and a board with some weight on it when glassing them since they are flat and all I need to do is to get the glass on there to reinforce the joint. The way it looks to me is that I have been doing a lot of extra work when it was not necessary on the reinforcement of the backside of the panels.

( By the way the other side was epoxied and glassed as I said , then sanded , to remove some imperfections , and a 2nd coat of epoxy was applied. When it cured I flipped the panels over) I do like the color and the wood grain on this Oak Paneling. It should make a good looking wood boat when I am done and add some finishing touches to it.

Using the left over epoxy from saturating the backside of the panels , I coated the battens and will flip them and do the backside when I glass the joints of the panels.

Chuck.