Help,I need paddling advice for the pirogue!

[cctyer]

First let give you some stats. My boat Finished out at 15' long, with a 25"bottom beam and a 30"top beam at center, she has 10" sideboards 3 ribs and weighs about 45-46 pounds. All in all the boat came out great as you all have seen and I am really happy with her.

Now my concern: I am 6' tall and weigh about 225 lbs, I am very much a novice at paddling. I need your help and sage advice in figuring out how to paddle this boat without feeling like shes gonna GO OVER :shock: with the slightest weight shift or wrong paddle stroke. I have a kayak paddle and a 5' canoe paddle and built the seat for the pirogue that Chuck designed. I just want to feel more at ease in the boat and get rid of or reduce the pucker factor.
Yesterday I paddled her for the second time and I went quite far down the bank of the local lake. I was trying out the J stroke and trying to paddle on one side, also played with differnt kayak paddle storkes. At one point I was going along at a good pace using the kayak paddle and I'm not sure what I did but I got the boat leaning left enough that she started to take on water and you could hear the old sphincter slap shut across the lake. I quickly got my act together and righted the boat but it made me start thinking is this due to my inexperiance with the boat and paddling altogether? Is the seat too high? etc.etc.etc.

I would like to feel comfortable in the boat enough to put my fishing gear in her and not fear losing it to a capsize. I am sure I could build a different boat and will take suggestions there as well, but I would like to use this one with confidence.

Thank you all in advance!

I just gave you guy's a lot of Ammo so please try not to use the whole 9 yards all at once.
Especially you Jack :wink: (I know you know where that saying comes from working on planes and all. although you probably didn't get to work an B-52. I think that was a little before your time right!

 

[Kayak Jack]

I used to train guys in engine start and run-up on both B-52's and KC-135s.

Your difficulties in your boat are not all that abnormal (your usual psychological state notwithstanding). Try sitting lower. This will lower your center of gravity (CG) and do wonders for the boat's stability. It will also bark a few knuckles on the side of the boat.

You may be way too tense. For the boat to start dipping water, you were probably within a frog's hair of capsizing. Try relaxing more. take a stroke, and let the boat glide. Another stroke, and glide. This is a good way to relax and let the boat do some of your work.

Oh, and make damned sure you wear a PFD.

 

[JEM]

You may be way too tense.

Guy walks in the the psychologist office and says, "Doc, I'm having trouble sleeping at night with all the stress I'm under right now. And when I do sleep, I think I'm going insane with these weird dreams I'm having."

Doc: "Tell me about the dreams."

Guy: "Well at first I dreamt I was a teepee. Then I dreamt I was a wigwam. This is really disturnbing. Am I losing my mind?!?!?"

Doc: "Naw, you're not going crazy. You're just two tents".

 

[JEM]

Pirogues are notoriuos for having a sudden twitch and dump. If you're on the bottom and sitting flat, they are great to paddle. Sits up higher and you start to pucker.

I'd try lowering the seat a bit like Jack says. Even an inch will make a difference. More time paddling will also get you more comfortable with your boat.

 

[Scooter]

I hear ya man. I've had my 15.5 ft pirogue out maybe 6 times and have definitely learned there's a line I dare not cross. It's alot like learning to ride a bicycle, only easier...never skinned an elbow while paddling and haven't been dumped...yet.

First time out sitting on the floor was really tippy. Then by the 3rd or 4th time out, used the UJ folding seat and it was like readjustment all over again.

When turning, there's a thin line between leaning far enough to get 'er to turn and leaning too far. It gets easier though. And probably alot more fun too.

 

[oldsparkey]

Several suggestions from this side of the swamp.

1. Use the kayak paddle , it is easier to paddle with and practice with the canoe paddle to get the feel or hang of using it. I like the kayak paddle for going upstream or covering a distance , the canoe paddle for down stream and easing along.

2. The pirogue is like a bicycle , it takes some getting use to and before you know it you will be paddling it like you have been in one all your life. Just remember they are in between a canoe and a kayak as far as stability.

3. Fishing out of one is like fishing out of any boat you paddle , take out a lure , then close the tackle box.

4. If you want to really get the feel for the pirogue , put on a bathing suit and in the shallow water ( where you can stand ) lean over as much as you want and find the point for you when it lets you go swimming. Then try to swamp it , rock back from side to side , do all sorts of things to find out what you can and can't do.
Besides being educational it is also refreshing on a hot day. Make sure you have something with you to bail the water out .

5. Actually all I'm saying is get to know the boat and what you can do with it , just good old common horse sense sort of things. I will bet when you 1st got on a bike you skinned up a knee or elbow before doing jumps and wheelies with it.

One pirogue I have the seat is 3 inches from the rails , talk about checking your balance and that is the one I paddled for 5 days thru the Okefenokee Swamp with camping and photography gear in it. I did the bathing suite thing at the local lake before I did that trip. Got to know the boat quite well.
That is the one that weighs 32 pounds and is my back water (ponds & lakes ) fishing boat. I fly fish out of it , while sitting , NOT standing.
The lower you sit the better the stability , remember the Cajuns pole them while standing up. :lol:
( Jezzeeee Chuck ,that is like telling someone the rain is dry , I know Jack ...now go back to your nap... Just thought I would beat Jack to that ) :lol:

Chuck.

 

[cctyer]

Ok guys, I get the cut of your jib! Get in her and get wet ! lower the CG and lighten up a bit. I will try all of the above and get back on that pucker horse so to speak. :shock:
I want to have fun and feel comfortable in her and that is just going to take more time in the seat. I don't want to give up on the seat yet cuz that's keeping me off the floor but I will try it with no chair to see the differnce. I am going to try the lowered version of the chair with the sit-backer on it. I see guy's like mick with all his gear and electronics aboard and think I am just lame or he's that good. More testing to come. I'll keep you poated.

Thanks again for your help and encouragment.

Oh yeah Jack! I promiss to wear my PFD always.

 

[bearridge]

Friend Chad,

One more tip. Practice yer brace. Lean way out to one side, but put yer paddle out flat on top of the water 'n brace yerself ta keep the water under the boat....push yerself back up. That will show ya jest how far ya kin go without turnin' bottom upwards. If ya kin do that, yer pucker factor oughta go down.

regards
bearridge

A man who wouldn't cheat for a poke don't want one bad enough. Gus McCrae

 

[tx river rat]

CCTYYER
This is coming from a rookie I have been around boats most of my adult life incuding canoes. In kayaks just a few months so it hasn't been long since I felt the same way as you do. Mine has been in Yaks and I have turtled once ( but with the help of mister no shoulders) the more I relax the easier it gets just lean back relax it will come to you .
I even got in a marothon boat a couple days ago figured I was going swimming but was no problem so if I can do it anyone can.
Ron
It even sort of fun to get in rough water now

 

[oldsparkey]

Bear...

Some good advice and I am ashamed of myself for not telling him that. Guess I had a geezer moment while trying to think. :roll:

Chad...

Like tx river rat , I had a canoe before I had a bicycle so boats just come natural to me.
Plus the water to try all of that in only needs to be knee deep or around that depth , not the middle of the lake. :lol:

Chuck.

 

[Zeb]

CC
Have You tried Kneeling?
You can spread your knees for stability and adjust Your height by sitting back on Your heels etc.
You can make it a more comfortable experience by laying a camping mat on the floor of Your boat.

 

[cctyer]

All great advice guy's I will try the kneeling and the brace, In fact the brace came to mind after almost going in and that was to late. I'm sure I will get better after I realize the limits of this boat and settle into her. I have a much better respect for paddlers of all types especially the real skinny kayaks.

Here is my next question while were here: Say I do have a deep water capsize and the shore is not as near as I thought or wanted. What is the best way to re-enter the boat? Should I get a leash for the paddle just in case? Also I probably need to tie the seat etc. to the boat right?
Don't worry guy's with your help you'll make a paddler out of me yet. I'm not the type to give up easily. :wink:

 

[oldsparkey]

If there is deep water and you go for a swim , providing the water is not to cold , use the boat to keep you afloat and when in the shallows then right it , empty it and get back in.

As kids my buddy and myself would take the canoe out in the middle of the lake , dive out of it and then get back in , when it is fun you don't know you are learning something , dumb kids.:lol: We sort of slithered over the sides of the canoe to get back in.

If that is not possible then you could ease over the side of the boat and get back in it , ( The boat will have water in it and you will be wet ) empty the water and paddle to shore , then get all the water out of it.
That takes some practice and is best to try while in shallow water without touching the bottom , that would be cheating. If you have never done it before.

Main thing to remember , if you would capsize then stay with the boat , it will float and is a lot easier to spot then a lone swimmer. Don't worry about what you had in it till you save yourself , then look for the belongings , if you don't find them they can be replaced unlike you.

Like that one trip in the Okefenokee when Bill hit that gator as we were flying along with his motor having us on top and we capsized , ( did a 180 , wet side up dry side down ) try righting a canoe with a outboard (7.5 Mercury) on it while swimming in a swamp , good luck.

We were in the water with a pissed off gator ( not even saying anything about that leaking gas tank) and fortunetly about 15 minutes later some fishermen running the canal saw the canoe and came over to help us.
Now you know why I only paddle or go in a boat by myself , yep it is a long story and several thousands of dollars of camera gear is still sitting in the mud at the bottom of that canal. So much for all the pictures we got while in there.

There are ways to get a lot of water out of a boat while in deep water and righting it so you can get back in. It just takes a cool head without any panic while doing it.

Needless to say is the main idea is not to capsize , but if you get close to it and wet then not all the water in the lake or river in there with you.

Chuck.

 

[tx river rat]

Here's the story of how I learned
I was in a 9ft 5in plastic boat turtle I couldn't get to the shallows so I rolled over the boat dumped as much water out as I could (first mistake) tried going in over the side boat would just start filling again tried over the back boat was so short water that was in it would run to the back nose go straight up.I remembered reading on a forum to stick paddle in tie downs let it work as a out rigger to stabilize boat as you crawled into it well that worked.
Lessons learned
I had everything tied so was ok there
don't try to empty boat before you get in whole lot lower profile and easier to get into full of water
have something to bail with
I now have a piece of a water noodle split in my boat that will slide over my paddle for making an outrigger
A knife on my pfd in case I tangle in something
bill fold in plastic bag
strap on glasses or sunglasses
But the best is just not roll :lol:
Ron

 

[bearridge]

Friend Chad,

Been givin' some thought ta what Zeb sez. Near bout all my paddlin' iz on my knees. The canoe I paddled the last few Paddlin' Geezer Canoe Clud expedishuns dont even have a reglar seat....jest a low saddle made ta go with knee pads. I have knee pads in both my canoes. One come with the boat (store bought). I made the other set.....very soft, made frum 4" thick closed cell foam 'n glued ta the bottom of the boat where MY knees fit.

This aint much cost 'n no weight. Ya dont have ta use 'em until a hoodoocie, a towboat 'er an arsehole comes upon ya. Git down on yer knees 'n wait til the water settles down? I put mine az far apart az possible, more stability 'n control. I never give no thought ta knee pads in a flatwater boat, but if there ever come a time when yer pucker wuz bout ta be a factor, they would be mitey nice. Not only will ya be more stable, ya kin put a lot more power inta yer strokes.

regards
bearridge

ps I bet the Ouachita Outdoor place sells the foam 'n store bought knee pads.

You do this right and I'll get you an old dog to kick. Butch Cassidy

 

[seedtick]

You're probably a lot (i mean a lot) younger than my friend Keith. But he designed this old fart seat for folks whose legs couldn't stay in one place for any length of time

You ride it like a saddle. You can paddle with your legs straight out, crossed in front, tucked alongside or in a kneeling position. You can move it fore and aft, depending on the load, to trim out the pirogue. It allows you to get into the boat without having to step over the seat and let's you lean forward to access the stuff in front while keeping your center of gravity low.

 

[bearridge]

Friend tick,

I am less'n two years frum my socialized security jackpot. [The High Sheriff 'n Kayakus Jackus been drawin' their checks fer quite a spell.....President Roosevelt signed Jack's first one.]

My closed cell foam seats (one homemade, one store bought) dont move....I gotta glue my stuff in cuz if I dont blow out ever now 'er then, I mite az well be paddlin' flatwater. :wink: Is that saddle loose....jest move it whereever ya like? Dont the ribs keep it frum movin'?

I bet ya'll dont worry bout blowin' out.......when wuz the last time one of ya'll turnt bottom upwards....sober? :wink:

regards
bearridge

It is inaccurate to say that I hate everything. I am strongly in favor of common sense, common honesty, and common decency. This makes me forever ineligible for public office. H. L. Mencken

 

[seedtick]

I'm 13 months from my first check.............


yea, it's loose Keith's personal pirogue doesn't have ribs. It floats if he turns over.

There just ain't much whitewater here in south LA except when the river's up and there's drifting logs and stuff to dodge. Last time I left a boat "accidentally" was probably 40 years ago and I wasn't quite sober at the time. I have left several times on purpose for snakes, wasps, etc. Keith and I almost got wet a couple of years ago when we got too close to a mama alligator's nest and she didn't like the intrusion.

Seems like we end up paddlin mostly in the winter time when the water's cold and getting wet means you're several hours away from getting dry. Flatwater is fine with me.

 

[hairymick]

Heya Tyer,

Don't stress mate over what you see on my boats. I have been playing in and on (and often out of) paddle craft just about all of my life. But thanks for the compliment.

Mate, I learn't to paddle on long and very skinny surf racing skis. Anything after that is stable.

The advice the others have given you is all good. Get out in the boat in shallow water and put her through her paces. Find out what she will and won't do and most important, - get wet.

Bracing will come naturally to you very quickly and you will find yourself just doing it when necessary without even thinking about it. I wouldn't be too bothered about the J stroke either. I haven't learned how and am not particularly interested in learning. I sort of think that any stroke that doesn't move the boat forward is a waste of energy. I am happy enough to change sides whenever necessary. but that is just me.

 

[bearridge]

Seems like we end up paddlin mostly in the winter time when the water's cold and getting wet means you're several hours away from getting dry. Flatwater is fine with me.

Friend tick,

The older I git, the better flatwater looks, but so far I jest caint bring myself ta paddle where there aint no current. If ya turn bottom upwards in the winter, ya need the Paddlin' Geezers 'n a gaggle of women on hand. The women git ya stripped down 'n the geezers build a fire 'n gather up yer gear. The High Sheriff wuz warm 'n cozy within a half hour.

While it wont be the same, I reckon ya kin strip down without a bunch a women watchin'. 8)

regards
bearridge

Red meat is NOT bad for you. Now blue-green meat, THAT'S bad for you! Tommy Smothers