Epoxy over paint?
- Thread starter beekeeper
- Start date
An update.
I hung the pieces on string outside for 2yrs. My observations now are:
1. Varnish only looks the worse. Weather checked and may be mildewed under the finish.
2. Paint only is peeling and would need redoing.
3. Wet epoxy with top coat of paint has less peeling but some checking.
4. Wet paint or dry paint with epoxy top coat looks good.
These pieces did have another top coat of varnish for U.V. protection
5. Epoxy and paint mixed as a glue/filler is holding very well.
Are any of these practical or worthwhile? Maybe. Epoxy and varnish over paint held up better than just paint with top coat of varnish, or pieces with just varnish. They seemed to stop the checking(pine BC plywood). They were also smoother. The paint over wet epoxy showed the scratches the least.
One point is clear to me. Wet epoxy and latex paint will bond together better than paint over dried epoxy.
I hope to bring these boards to the Rendezvous if anyone is interested.
beekeeper
I hung the pieces on string outside for 2yrs. My observations now are:
1. Varnish only looks the worse. Weather checked and may be mildewed under the finish.
2. Paint only is peeling and would need redoing.
3. Wet epoxy with top coat of paint has less peeling but some checking.
4. Wet paint or dry paint with epoxy top coat looks good.
These pieces did have another top coat of varnish for U.V. protection
5. Epoxy and paint mixed as a glue/filler is holding very well.
Are any of these practical or worthwhile? Maybe. Epoxy and varnish over paint held up better than just paint with top coat of varnish, or pieces with just varnish. They seemed to stop the checking(pine BC plywood). They were also smoother. The paint over wet epoxy showed the scratches the least.
One point is clear to me. Wet epoxy and latex paint will bond together better than paint over dried epoxy.
I hope to bring these boards to the Rendezvous if anyone is interested.
beekeeper
Bee
I like this kind of test ,I think it helps all of us.
I am going to add my findings an ideals on some of the things you posted
THIS IS WHAT AS WORKED THE BEST FOR ME OTHERS MAY HAVE DIFFERENT RESULTS.
latex house paint is not made for wear, it is made to protect a surface from sun and weather not abrasions. The rustolem I used a lot in my steel fab shop and it had good wearing properties went on smooth and lasted well.
water base stains ,yep i have had some problems , I had blisters pop up in a few places ,the epoxy and cloth stayed together it turned loose from the wood, really not sure why.
epoxy over paint ,in areas that are rigid it seem to work ok, in areas that flexed not so well had
areas that came loose from the wood and in one case it flaked
Some folks have talked about just taping seams then painting the rest of the boat ,I use to build some flat bottoms that way and found they were a short life boat if built with ply ,they wound up looking just like Bees samples.
Epoxy and wet paint , I can see some problems there ,how would you apply it smooth enough for a good finish and if you had to sand it ,runs and such, I think it would look just like the samples Bee dragged across the concrete.
I have built and used several boats with epoxy and poly that were painted on after sanding smooth with rustolem paint, it gave a good finish ,smooth and slick ,wore well with some rough usage. Sun hasnt affected it at all.
This is what I have had the best luck with, epoxy and 6 ounce cloth inside and out,if I paint
it will be satin rustolem .I have several hundred miles on this combination that are river miles and hard on boats,
For a clear finish epoxy 6 ounce glass inside and out sanded smooth then 4 coats of Benjamin
Moore spar varnish . This has held up better than any other combination of clear finish and is extremley hard and wear resistant much better than the other spar varnishes I tried
Just a couple more thoughts and explanation. My boats or used hard sit out in direct sunlight from 5 degrees last winter to 114 this summer .
Ron
I like this kind of test ,I think it helps all of us.
I am going to add my findings an ideals on some of the things you posted
THIS IS WHAT AS WORKED THE BEST FOR ME OTHERS MAY HAVE DIFFERENT RESULTS.
latex house paint is not made for wear, it is made to protect a surface from sun and weather not abrasions. The rustolem I used a lot in my steel fab shop and it had good wearing properties went on smooth and lasted well.
water base stains ,yep i have had some problems , I had blisters pop up in a few places ,the epoxy and cloth stayed together it turned loose from the wood, really not sure why.
epoxy over paint ,in areas that are rigid it seem to work ok, in areas that flexed not so well had
areas that came loose from the wood and in one case it flaked
Some folks have talked about just taping seams then painting the rest of the boat ,I use to build some flat bottoms that way and found they were a short life boat if built with ply ,they wound up looking just like Bees samples.
Epoxy and wet paint , I can see some problems there ,how would you apply it smooth enough for a good finish and if you had to sand it ,runs and such, I think it would look just like the samples Bee dragged across the concrete.
I have built and used several boats with epoxy and poly that were painted on after sanding smooth with rustolem paint, it gave a good finish ,smooth and slick ,wore well with some rough usage. Sun hasnt affected it at all.
This is what I have had the best luck with, epoxy and 6 ounce cloth inside and out,if I paint
it will be satin rustolem .I have several hundred miles on this combination that are river miles and hard on boats,
For a clear finish epoxy 6 ounce glass inside and out sanded smooth then 4 coats of Benjamin
Moore spar varnish . This has held up better than any other combination of clear finish and is extremley hard and wear resistant much better than the other spar varnishes I tried
Just a couple more thoughts and explanation. My boats or used hard sit out in direct sunlight from 5 degrees last winter to 114 this summer .
Ron
Look's like we have a lot more choices to chose from on how to finish a boat. A builder will have to make a decision on which boat to build ( something some folks have a problem with since you can only build one at a time ) and then on which way to finish it when completed.
Just remember that the best way is the way you wanted to do it.
Personally I will stay with the epoxy and then some varnish for above the water line since I like the color of the wood.
The bottom for protection is either the Teflon paint or the graphite and epoxy. It all depends on how I am thinking of finishing the boat and what is the best direction (choice) for me to complete the boat.
Needless to say I do not bang or bump the boats around but tend to be more careful with them then the average bear. :wink:
Just remember that the best way is the way you wanted to do it.
Personally I will stay with the epoxy and then some varnish for above the water line since I like the color of the wood.
The bottom for protection is either the Teflon paint or the graphite and epoxy. It all depends on how I am thinking of finishing the boat and what is the best direction (choice) for me to complete the boat.
Needless to say I do not bang or bump the boats around but tend to be more careful with them then the average bear. :wink:
I have my own ideals that work for me .
But I think all will work.
Ron
As long as it pleases you and floa ts ,you did good.
But I think all will work.
Ron
As long as it pleases you and floa
ts ,you did good.tx river rat said:As long as it pleases you and floa
That is the ultimate goal with each boat that is built.
Some more points about this "test".
Original purpose was to find a "harder" (more scratch resistant) finish that was better than paint over dried epoxy. The second part came from questions about UV damage.
Wet paint and wet epoxy will mix, and may offer a better finish than paint over dry epoxy, varnish only, or just paint.
Mixing paint into the epoxy would require more experimenting to find a workable mix. A little paint made it thick, and it seemed to set fast.
Scratches in paint over wet epoxy did not show as much as in other combinations. I think because it was not as shiny. It weather checked more than epoxy over paint.
None of the test pieces were painted or epoxy coated with any care or attention towards a level finish. The boards with the epoxy top coat have a smooth (slippery) feel. If the wood and the paint are smooth the top coat will also be smooth.
I am not making any boasts or claims about any of this. It is probably worth just about what you paid for it. I was surprised the two mixed and bonded, and pleased they weathered as well as they did.
If the wood is worthy, epoxy and varnish it for a long lasting beautiful finish. If not so nice wood, paint and then top coat it with epoxy and varnish for a smooth,nice looking and long lasting finish.
A high grade of marine paint may work as well or better for about the same cost. I don't know. :wink: Somebody should paint some boards and let us know in a couple of years. That is a long time, but what is time to a board.
beekeeper
Original purpose was to find a "harder" (more scratch resistant) finish that was better than paint over dried epoxy. The second part came from questions about UV damage.
Wet paint and wet epoxy will mix, and may offer a better finish than paint over dry epoxy, varnish only, or just paint.
Mixing paint into the epoxy would require more experimenting to find a workable mix. A little paint made it thick, and it seemed to set fast.
Scratches in paint over wet epoxy did not show as much as in other combinations. I think because it was not as shiny. It weather checked more than epoxy over paint.
None of the test pieces were painted or epoxy coated with any care or attention towards a level finish. The boards with the epoxy top coat have a smooth (slippery) feel. If the wood and the paint are smooth the top coat will also be smooth.
I am not making any boasts or claims about any of this. It is probably worth just about what you paid for it. I was surprised the two mixed and bonded, and pleased they weathered as well as they did.
If the wood is worthy, epoxy and varnish it for a long lasting beautiful finish. If not so nice wood, paint and then top coat it with epoxy and varnish for a smooth,nice looking and long lasting finish.
A high grade of marine paint may work as well or better for about the same cost. I don't know. :wink: Somebody should paint some boards and let us know in a couple of years. That is a long time, but what is time to a board.
beekeeper
In two years, it gets bored.beekeeper said:<SNIP> ...and let us know in a couple of years. That is a long time, but what is time to a board.
Dont have to wait on the paint over epoxy I have several boats that are that way and have lived outside all there life no problem at all.
Have a couple that are paint over poly that are doing just fine also , all were built with luan.
The ones that have been repaired with epoxy over paint didnt hold up well.
Ron
Have a couple that are paint over poly that are doing just fine also , all were built with luan.
The ones that have been repaired with epoxy over paint didnt hold up well.
Ron
I need to add this was all with rustolem satin finish black paint and us composite 2 to 1 epoxy
The type paint,and epoxy could have a bearing on the results.
Ron
The type paint,and epoxy could have a bearing on the results.
Ron