Design ideas, questions, thoughts?

[mommicked]

I wanna build another boat in the next year or so. Done the 6 hour canoe/pirogue, and finishing an Uncle John's Jon boat (12', builing for doing dock electrical work). I also have two fiberglass canoes of unknown manufacture.

I want a canoe that does everything. No such animal. I'd like one that does well in open windy water, usually shallow at that. My first canoe had a wide flat bottom, and I would often stand and pole it with a long pole(12'-14'). My current ones are narrow, and getting in and out is tricky, let alone standing and poling.

It would be nice if it were light, but I need a sturdy bottom, and a wide sturdy bottom means weight. If the canoe/pirogue were stable enough for hunting out of, even better, but not a requirement, I have a skiff.

The ability to row or sail might be a plus, but only if it can still be paddled solo or tandem(which means no single enders ). 16-17.5' would be about right, wide bottom, fairly flat, little to no rocker I'm thinking. Any suggestions? The perfect boat is a dream or a myth, and what you gain in one area you lose somewhere else, but I AM gonna look and try.......

Anyone want in on my madness? Suggestions, ideas, or the one you just built is just the design I need?

 

[JEM]

you talking like a big pirogue?

 

[mommicked]

Not sure if it'd be a big piro or canoe, but I'm thinkin' double ender, that can solo or tandem, 16-17.5' or so?

I looked at your plans. WOW! Neat, and I liked almost all of what I saw. 8) But since I'm trying to build the perfect canoe, the more I looked the more confused I got as to which one, what features were most useful in my madness, etc. I really like your designs, and most likely it'll be one of yours. Ever canoe Newport River? Bogue Sound or Core Sound? The waves are choppy but small, the water is shallow, but the Wind kicks a fellow's butt! (But, and no disrespect to those who like em, I don't like kayaks for myself . No disrespect intended at all.). A 'yak is better in the wind, but I like a little more sides on my boat, and a little more cargo room. Boats and yachts going by fairly close is normal, due to space, and they don't slow down much for canoes.

I like many of your designs.....

 

[hairymick]

heya Mommicked,

What about a BIG swampgirl? Say, about 18ft. Sounds like a plan to me

 

[JEM]

sounds like a partially decked canoe might fit the bill nicely. Or maybe an open with some simple spray covers. Any thoughts on what maximum width you'd want to go with? Maximum weight on board? That will give me an idea if I have anything currently or in the works that is close.

Thanks for the kind words. I've been out to the coast on NC and the inlets but never paddled them. I can certainly understand the challenges you mentioned.

 

[JEM]

heya Mommicked,

What about a BIG swampgirl? Say, about 18ft. Sounds like a plan to me

something close to that just might do the trick. Might have to be a little deeper though. I keep thinking the Freedom Chuck built (but with a modified cockpit) might also do the trick. It's a yak but it is a deeper one.

 

[oldsparkey]

Not sure about standing in it but the Zephyrus that Matt has might be the answer to all the rest of your questions.

Chuck.

 

[JEM]

Not sure about standing in it but the Zephyrus that Matt has might be the answer to all the rest of your questions.

Chuck.

Zeph wouldn't do real well in skinny/super shallow water. I'm thinking perhaps take the Freedom prototype, lengthen it, change the cockpit openening a bit, and you'd have it.

 

[oldsparkey]

Either one would do the job ...... but finding one boat to handle everything is a near impossibility if not just plain impossible.

It is sort of like comparing a truck to a car to a sports car to a SUV , they all will do the job but some are designed to do a certain job better then the rest. Just some southernpaddler nut shell philosophy, for what it is worth.

Chuck.

 

[JEM]

Either one would do the job ...... but finding one boat to handle everything is a near impossibility if not just plain impossible.

It is sort of like comparing a truck to a car to a sports car to a SUV , they all will do the job but some are designed to do a certain job better then the rest. Just some southernpaddler nut shell philosophy, for what it is worth.

Chuck.

yes very true.

 

[paddlin4reds]

...... but finding one boat to handle everything is a near impossibility if not just plain impossible.

Chuck.

....and if we did find one boat to handle everything, what excuse would we use to build more boats? :roll:

 

[oldsparkey]

...... but finding one boat to handle everything is a near impossibility if not just plain impossible.

Chuck.

....and if we did find one boat to handle everything, what excuse would we use to build more boats? :roll:

I don't know about the rest of you but I have only made 8 boats so far. Planning the 9th one at this time. Working out how I want it on paper and then will start sawing, epoxying , glassing, sanding and having some fun.

Some of the reasons I use when the wife looks around and utters those famous words .................................................... WHY DO YOU NEED ANOTHER BOAT?

1. I have epoxy left over and I sure don't want it to go to waste.
2. I have some wood left over and it needs to be used for something constructive, like a boat.
3. I don't have a boat like that.
4. If I don't use the saw it will rust.
5. The sandpaper will curl up and be unusable with all of this humidity.
6. What do you want me to do with all of this unused fiberglass, on a boat it will not rot?
7. Working on a new boat will get me out of the house and out of your way.
8. Put anyone's name in the blank .....__________ asked me to make this new one and see how it paddles and if anything needs to be changed on the plans.
9. Look at all the wood flour and graphite I have, it needs to used before the termites get in there for a snack.
10. If we ever have a flood you will be happy we have all these boats.

Then there is the one she never can argue about ...... Darn Honey , A guy can never have to many boats. Just like women and all the shoes they have to have. ( She has so many shoes I think I married a millepede) :lol:

Chuck

 

[paddlin4reds]

:lol: I've been buying up wood, all kinds of exotic trim piece stock. Every couple of days, my buddy the UPS guy arrives with yet another bundle of beautiful wood. She keeps askin' "How much wood does it take to make a kayak". :roll: Reason for the next boat.....I agree......left over wood. :lol: oh...reason for new garage ....need room for more wood :twisted: ...and more boats 8)

 

[hairymick]

The ability to row or sail might be a plus, but only if it can still be paddled solo or tandem(which means no single enders ). 16-17.5' would be about right, wide bottom, fairly flat, little to no rocker I'm thinking. Any suggestions?

What about a BHC? or a bigger version of my assymetrical pirogue?

i reckon both would do the job pretty well

 

[oldsparkey]

The ability to row or sail might be a plus, but only if it can still be paddled solo or tandem(which means no single enders ). 16-17.5' would be about right, wide bottom, fairly flat, little to no rocker I'm thinking. Any suggestions?

What about a BHC? or a bigger version of my assymetrical pirogue?

Take Micks Pirogue and move it out to 17 or 18 feet, deck part of it over, a decked boat that would handle a lot of what he is looking for. There are a lot of options, it is only a matter of which way the builder (paddler) wants to go.

We could take years trying to figure this out .......... or he could build one boat for bad water and one for skinny water. Both would work there, one would just be better then the other.

This is not brain surgery ...... This is a fun project.

Chuck
PS. If the answer was easy then I would not have the 8 boats I made for my use. :lol: I would only be paddling the Swamp Girl. Possibly a longer model and partially decked over.

 

[hairymick]

PS. If the answer was easy then I would not have the 8 boats I made for my use

That's our story anyway, And we're sticking to it :lol:

 

[mommicked]

All this madness.....I've finally found a HOME! :lol: 8)

I'll have to scroll back through some of the designs y'all mention. One in particular that caught my eye was the rowing canoe(name evades me). It reminded me of a sailing "wherry", but was a true canoe, so maybe the best of both worlds? I could always carry a poling oar, and a small mast/boom/sail. If it's blowin hard enough to be tough to paddle, it won't take too much canvas to sail home I'm thinking. The tough question then might be lee boards or one of those centerboard trunk thingies that let all the water in :shock: . True double ender, maybe with hooks in one end for a tiller......?

Maybe?

Hairymick, is it a waste of beer to break a bottle over the anchor at Christening? Just askin'!

 

[paddlin4reds]

Mornin';
Sorry to run off at the mouth on your post. I feel bad, so I thought I'd share this "Weird" boat, that I found and want to build. I have a few too many Yaks on my plate right now (one SOT kickin' my butt). So anyway I thought I'd share this. Looks kinda like what I think your lookin' for (maybe not ) Kinda of a SOT Kayak/Canoe/Pirogue mix. Weird lookin' but looks practical. Not sure bout sailin', not my cup a tea mate. Sorry JEM, not one of yours. http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/nichols/flyfisher/index.htm
Hairymick, is it a waste of beer to break a bottle over the anchor at Christening? Just askin'! Paddlin' 4 Reds says...."...if it had beer in it, it was a waste"

When a U.S. Marine was asked what he felt when he shot a terrorist from Iraq with his Snipper Rifle, his response was "....Recoil".

 

[hairymick]

G'day Mommiked

Hairymick, is it a waste of beer to break a bottle over the anchor at Christening? Just askin'!

Best use for beer I can think of is standing waiste deep in water picking oysters from the rocks with a can just within reach. A sip now & then between oysters. Mmmm, hot day, cool water, cold beer, fresh oysters and a canoe/yak nearby. My idea of heaven.

I'll have to scroll back through some of the designs y'all mention. One in particular that caught my eye was the rowing canoe(name evades me).

I think you mean BHC. I've been coveting one of those myself.

G'day my brother from another mother. That flyfisher is a real pretty boat mate. A little wide for my liking but I don't stand in my boats so I wouldn't know.

 

[mommicked]

Issaquah 17
BHC
buccaneer xtra wide???
like gander a lot too...
iroquois 15.5
muskoka
durn it, add the townsend too, 16'!

Cross open choppy water in the wind, solo, pull up on a sandbar, dig for clams and have a cold.....(you pick that one). When you've filled a bucket or two with clams, you run outta beer, or the sun starts gettin low, you shove off the sandbar, cross the open choppy water, now with a breeze freshing up, and head for the hill.

Cargo is 1-2 people, extra paddles, pfd's, an anchor, medium cooler, and maybe a trolling motor and car battery. Some how, this all adds up to enough weight to sink the Queen Anne's Revenge, no matter how many of the beers you drink. The wind is the greatest enemy, more than the waves or the shallows. The wind saps you. 15-20 mph on a typical summer afternoon, and on the trip home when you're already tard(er, I mean tired).

Wind means low sides, unless you sail or pole. Sailing and poling dictate more width and or higher sides than a "normal" canoe, if such a critter exists. But like Old Sparkey said....

.. but finding one boat to handle everything is a near impossibility if not just plain impossible.