Dear Sheena's dad. Yep, I'll share in those college expenses. I reached into my pocket - thirty seven cents and some lint. You just dig right in til your heart's content.
Best wood for a Stripper?
- Thread starter sheena's dad
- Start date
bearridge said:O Master of Flowbizness,oldsparkey said:
hair?
curiously
bearridge
Bear; hair is that white fuzzy stuff that grows in your ears and nostrils :roll:
Here is a link where strip built boats are built by people all over the world and all kinds of help and advice is given.
http://www.kayakforum.com/cgi-bin/Build ... /noframes/
I have built two strip built kayaks, one without staples and one with staples. With staple is easier and faster and the holes show up but really aren’t very noticeable. Without staples building I used lots of duck tape and spring clamps to pull the strip together along with wood wedges, L brackets, etc. Some use inter-tube strip.
The strips will have to be planed at an angle to fit next to each other. I came up with a kind of jig that makes that fairly easy.
Western Red Cedar is the best all around wood in my opinion. It is light, pretty and more bendable then most. White Cedar is probably the lightest if you can get it. I never could. For the contrasting wood to cedar that is fairly light that I like is White Pine. Then an accent wood I like is Black Walnut, but it is heavy and brittle so I use it sparingly. I use other wood also but Western Red Cedar and White Pine are the main ones. I use 6, 8 and 10 foot length sense it is easy to butt the strips together and they look good. The first strip on the gunnels needs to be a full strip and can be spliced together to make a full starting strip. I used the greenish part of the Yellow Popular wood for my strips. Popular, Bass Wood & Black Walnut are heaver stiffer woods then Western Red Cedar and White Pine.
In my area in Indiana I found my best and cheapest Western Red Cedar at Manard’s. But I had to go through stacks of lumber to find the better pieces.
http://www.kayakforum.com/cgi-bin/Build ... /noframes/
I have built two strip built kayaks, one without staples and one with staples. With staple is easier and faster and the holes show up but really aren’t very noticeable. Without staples building I used lots of duck tape and spring clamps to pull the strip together along with wood wedges, L brackets, etc. Some use inter-tube strip.
The strips will have to be planed at an angle to fit next to each other. I came up with a kind of jig that makes that fairly easy.
Western Red Cedar is the best all around wood in my opinion. It is light, pretty and more bendable then most. White Cedar is probably the lightest if you can get it. I never could. For the contrasting wood to cedar that is fairly light that I like is White Pine. Then an accent wood I like is Black Walnut, but it is heavy and brittle so I use it sparingly. I use other wood also but Western Red Cedar and White Pine are the main ones. I use 6, 8 and 10 foot length sense it is easy to butt the strips together and they look good. The first strip on the gunnels needs to be a full strip and can be spliced together to make a full starting strip. I used the greenish part of the Yellow Popular wood for my strips. Popular, Bass Wood & Black Walnut are heaver stiffer woods then Western Red Cedar and White Pine.
In my area in Indiana I found my best and cheapest Western Red Cedar at Manard’s. But I had to go through stacks of lumber to find the better pieces.
Windyaker,
Thanks for the information. Really like that design you've got there. Tell me, is the walnut inlayed or cut into...? It's a very nice detail in the design.
Also, you said something about butting the strips together. How does that hold up for you as compared to scarfing? Or am I misunderstanfing something here.
I tell you, though, after seeing all the kayaks on here... I beginning to feel the temptation to build a stripped one after I get Sheena's 17 footer and my 20 footer done... I probably won't get in it myself, if I do, but I think I would thoroughly enjoy the build.... :wink:
Again, Thanks for the info...
Sheena's Dad
Thanks for the information. Really like that design you've got there. Tell me, is the walnut inlayed or cut into...? It's a very nice detail in the design.
Also, you said something about butting the strips together. How does that hold up for you as compared to scarfing? Or am I misunderstanfing something here.
I tell you, though, after seeing all the kayaks on here... I beginning to feel the temptation to build a stripped one after I get Sheena's 17 footer and my 20 footer done... I probably won't get in it myself, if I do, but I think I would thoroughly enjoy the build.... :wink:
Again, Thanks for the info...
Sheena's Dad
Thanks for the information. Really like that design you've got there. Tell me, is the walnut inlayed or cut into...? It's a very nice detail in the design.
I did it the hard way, the design goes all the way through. After I cut the Ram Head design in the deck I put a light under the deck and cut the pieces until they fit. Slow going.
Also, you said something about butting the strips together. How does that hold up for you as compared to scarfing? Or am I misunderstanfing something here.
It holds up just fine and is very easy to do. The only place I used a scarf was on my first starting piece on the gunnal. It was around an 8 to 1 ratio scarf. By using wood that doesn’t go the whole length of the boat and butting it, the wood is much cheaper and easier to find and easier to handle. Most use ordinary yellow glue which isn’t water proof but once the boat is epoxied and glassed it is sealed from moisture. The picture shows how I cut my strips for butt joints. Very simple and quick. Sorry for the bad picture. It a pull Japaneese pull saw guided by a square. It takes about 15 seconds to cut a perfect butt joint. By using butt joints you can use pieces as small as you want and so their is very little waste.
John
I did it the hard way, the design goes all the way through. After I cut the Ram Head design in the deck I put a light under the deck and cut the pieces until they fit. Slow going.
Also, you said something about butting the strips together. How does that hold up for you as compared to scarfing? Or am I misunderstanfing something here.
It holds up just fine and is very easy to do. The only place I used a scarf was on my first starting piece on the gunnal. It was around an 8 to 1 ratio scarf. By using wood that doesn’t go the whole length of the boat and butting it, the wood is much cheaper and easier to find and easier to handle. Most use ordinary yellow glue which isn’t water proof but once the boat is epoxied and glassed it is sealed from moisture. The picture shows how I cut my strips for butt joints. Very simple and quick. Sorry for the bad picture. It a pull Japaneese pull saw guided by a square. It takes about 15 seconds to cut a perfect butt joint. By using butt joints you can use pieces as small as you want and so their is very little waste.
John
John,
I don't know if you realize it, but, brother, you done saved me a whole heap o' time on the building process!
I am surprised you use yellow glue, though... but I do see your point about the 'glass an' epoxy... hmmmm.... I've pretty much quit with the yellow glue on my furniture projects, preferring the polyuretanes, instead... ( a bit messier but with proper pentration a much stronger bond)
Now, I'm rethinking (Sparkey, Jack...I said rethinking now) the possibilities of polyurethane... the idea of not having to continually mix up a batch of epoxy for the glue up is mighty appealing...
Still in the process of ripping strips...( I'm using a bandsaw... basically just taking time with it... most progress is made when my daughter comes home on weekends from college since it's our project)
I've got a nice wide resaw blade on there so I don't really require the long rip fence Sparkey described in another thread where he talked about building his redwood pirouge. (See, Sparkey, some of us do tend t' spend a lot o' time reading th' older threads )
Thanks, though, John. What you've given me in information, this being my first strip build, is priceless. I appreciate it.
Sheena's Dad
Steve
I don't know if you realize it, but, brother, you done saved me a whole heap o' time on the building process!
I am surprised you use yellow glue, though... but I do see your point about the 'glass an' epoxy... hmmmm.... I've pretty much quit with the yellow glue on my furniture projects, preferring the polyuretanes, instead... ( a bit messier but with proper pentration a much stronger bond)
Now, I'm rethinking (Sparkey, Jack...I said rethinking now) the possibilities of polyurethane... the idea of not having to continually mix up a batch of epoxy for the glue up is mighty appealing...
Still in the process of ripping strips...( I'm using a bandsaw... basically just taking time with it... most progress is made when my daughter comes home on weekends from college since it's our project)
I've got a nice wide resaw blade on there so I don't really require the long rip fence Sparkey described in another thread where he talked about building his redwood pirouge. (See, Sparkey, some of us do tend t' spend a lot o' time reading th' older threads
)Thanks, though, John. What you've given me in information, this being my first strip build, is priceless. I appreciate it.
Sheena's Dad
Steve
sheena's dad said:Still in the process of ripping strips...( I'm using a bandsaw... basically just taking time with it... most progress is made when my daughter comes home on weekends from college since it's our project)
I've got a nice wide resaw blade on there so I don't really require the long rip fence Sparkey described in another thread where he talked about building his redwood pirouge. (See, Sparkey, some of us do tend t' spend a lot o' time reading th' older threads
Sheena's Dad
Steve
Heck , that is nice of you to read that old post since it was this old goat who took a lot o' time to post it ....... :lol: :lol: :lol:
It has surprised me on the amount of folks who have looked at it , over a 1,000 per month.
Take one nut , one nutty idea and before you know it you have a good boat to paddle and other folks like the idea and make one for themselves , see I am not the only nut in this world.
Us Nut's Have more fun then anyone.
Chuck.
Shoot, Sparkey;
Us nuts gotta have nutty ideas.... thars goota some squirrel out there needs t' learn from our screw-ups ! It's just most th' time, our nutty ideas actually amount t' something.... which makes it better for the learnee!
Dad
Us nuts gotta have nutty ideas.... thars goota some squirrel out there needs t' learn from our screw-ups
! It's just most th' time, our nutty ideas actually amount t' something.... which makes it better for the learnee! Dad
Now, Chuck. You do remember - don't you - that wood in NOT a suitable material from which to build a canoe or kayak?
SHAME on you.
Oh, Death were is thy sting a-ling a-ling?
Oh, Death where is they sting?
SHAME on you.
Oh, Death were is thy sting a-ling a-ling?
Oh, Death where is they sting?
To save yourself problems you really need to bookmark the KAYAK BUILD BULLETIN BOARD http://www.kayakforum.com/cgi-bin/Build ... /noframes/ where all you questions will be answered with several ways to attack any strip building problem. Plus there are archives that go back years. The final step will be to varnish your canoe with an ultraviolet inhibitor in it or the epoxy will deteriorate in sunlight.
I have used polyurethane glue (Gorilla Glue) but it’s too messy for me. On my ocean kayak on the cockpit lip where I wanted exceptional strength I use thickened epoxy.
I believe I told you one usually starts with the first strip on the gunnels but I started in a different area on the ocean kayak because the strip had to fasten at a certain place on the stern and it separated the white pine section from the red cedar at the waterline.
John
I have used polyurethane glue (Gorilla Glue) but it’s too messy for me. On my ocean kayak on the cockpit lip where I wanted exceptional strength I use thickened epoxy.
I believe I told you one usually starts with the first strip on the gunnels but I started in a different area on the ocean kayak because the strip had to fasten at a certain place on the stern and it separated the white pine section from the red cedar at the waterline.
John
Kayak Jack said:
Jack
Those were x-pert tree huggers invading a boating forum (If you want to call them that ) and everyone knows that or what an X Pert tree hugger is.
They had been smelling to many plastic boats and eating tofu burgers , it warped there gray matter.
Chuck.
Windyaker,
I agree, polyurethane glues CAN be messy... It took me sometime to learn to use it properly. That honey texture, y'know. When using it though you've got to keep in mind that 4:1 expansion ratio. I've got some of those syringe style glue applicators I use for it, so applyin a small bead isn't a problem which makes for a whole lot less mess.
Ugh...plastic boats.... ugliest things on the face of this earth.... Who come up with that idea, anyway, couldn't've been tree huggers... they ain't that bright...
Dad
I agree, polyurethane glues CAN be messy... It took me sometime to learn to use it properly. That honey texture, y'know. When using it though you've got to keep in mind that 4:1 expansion ratio. I've got some of those syringe style glue applicators I use for it, so applyin a small bead isn't a problem which makes for a whole lot less mess.
Ugh...plastic boats.... ugliest things on the face of this earth.... Who come up with that idea, anyway, couldn't've been tree huggers... they ain't that bright...
Dad
Concur, and add aluminum boats to that list. Both materials serviceable - and both ugly and loathsome.sheena's dad said:
Beauty is only skin deep, but ugly goes clear to the core.
Th' only good thing an aluminum 'noe is good for is meltin' down to sale with th' sodie cans :wink:
Fellas,
I like plastic. I also like ta hug a tree ever now 'n then. But then, that iz jest me. :wink: I like the look of wood better, but when I paddle I dont much care what my boat looks like.
regards
bearridge
Roscoe: Howdy, my name’s Roscoe Brown. Is this Texas? I’m frum Arkansaw.
Ole Sam: Got any whiskey?
Roscoe: Yes sir, I got a bottle rite here in my poke. I’d be glad ta share it with you. Havin’ possum for yer supper are ya?
Ole Sam: Yeah, but you aint.
I like plastic. I also like ta hug a tree ever now 'n then. But then, that iz jest me. :wink: I like the look of wood better, but when I paddle I dont much care what my boat looks like.
regards
bearridge
Roscoe: Howdy, my name’s Roscoe Brown. Is this Texas? I’m frum Arkansaw.
Ole Sam: Got any whiskey?
Roscoe: Yes sir, I got a bottle rite here in my poke. I’d be glad ta share it with you. Havin’ possum for yer supper are ya?
Ole Sam: Yeah, but you aint.
I heard tell once of a guy who set an aluminum canoe on a campfire, filled it with water, and took a hot bath. My wooden boat can't do that.sheena's dad said:
Hi guys,
Here is a PVA - self crosslinking clue I have used to repair the blades on oars with. I applied the glue to de-laminated blade sections in conjunction with biscuit joints some 8 years ago. They were not protected by an epoxy sheath and the glue has fot wet every time the oars were used. No problems yet.
it driest clear, cleaned up with water - perfect.
http://www.avsyntec.com.au/TB/TB-adh-crosslinked.htm
hope this helps
Here is a PVA - self crosslinking clue I have used to repair the blades on oars with. I applied the glue to de-laminated blade sections in conjunction with biscuit joints some 8 years ago. They were not protected by an epoxy sheath and the glue has fot wet every time the oars were used. No problems yet.
it driest clear, cleaned up with water - perfect.
http://www.avsyntec.com.au/TB/TB-adh-crosslinked.htm
hope this helps
Mick, me mate!
If'n y'was a woman.... (an' better lookin') I'd prob'ly smooch on ya's.
Thanks for the lead on th' AVXL.... sounds like what I've been lookin' for.
I have a few cabinet jobs comin' up that it could come in useful for as well as some furniture projects.
If what you say is true ( an' don't misunderstand...I'm sure it is, mate) I think it may be a good replacement for the polyurethane.
Thanks, mate.
Dad
If'n y'was a woman.... (an' better lookin') I'd prob'ly smooch on ya's.
Thanks for the lead on th' AVXL.... sounds like what I've been lookin' for.
I have a few cabinet jobs comin' up that it could come in useful for as well as some furniture projects.
If what you say is true ( an' don't misunderstand...I'm sure it is, mate) I think it may be a good replacement for the polyurethane.
Thanks, mate.
Dad
G'day Dad,
No problems. Only too glad to help.
I also use this stuff for lainating off-cuts of timber for wodturning. 20 minutes fter clamp up, it is right to start working in the lathe. it is also very good for scarf joints.
it is claimed to be only water resistant, but I would call it water proof and would not hesitate to use it on my next stripper. thinking seriously of having another crack at a Puddleduck by gil Gilpatrick. I am way to ashamed of my first attempt to even bother finishing it.
We use it for furniture making at work and never had a problem with delamination.
No problems.
Only too glad to help.I also use this stuff for lainating off-cuts of timber for wodturning. 20 minutes fter clamp up, it is right to start working in the lathe. it is also very good for scarf joints.
it is claimed to be only water resistant, but I would call it water proof and would not hesitate to use it on my next stripper. thinking seriously of having another crack at a Puddleduck by gil Gilpatrick. I am way to ashamed of my first attempt to even bother finishing it.
We use it for furniture making at work and never had a problem with delamination.