Have finally gotten all my materials and tools together to build my UJ Pirogue. Gonna be 15' 6" by 26. Don't have a problem with the construction, fiberglassing, or finishing BUT seems like there's no neat nor easy way to apply the fillets. I was wondering, has anybody ever used "Liquid Nails" Wood Adhesive for this particular job? I know regular liquid nails is almost indestructible whenever it's used in most construction jobs. Just would like to keep things "neat". Like ta clean as i go so as not ta have as much to "fair" or clean up when finished with each step. Also, have found masking tape a lifesaver when glueing anything. Like i said, just trying ta keep things neat. Thanks...Charlie.
Applying Filletts
- Thread starter fenix1
- Start date
You lost me , liquid nails is a glue and the fillets are a filler to round off a 90 degree area so the fiberglass will lay down on it.
Fillets are normally done with wood flour and epoxy mix , the consistency is usually the same as some runny peanut butter.
The easy way to make the fillet uniform is to use masking tape out from the seam , about 1/4 inch from each side leaving a 1/2 inch area to fill.
Putting the fillet down is easy , I use a large syringe , which I fill with the fillet material and then inject it in the area I want it. To smooth it and make the thickness uniform I use an old charge card which I have bent to conform to the angle of the two pieces of wood.
After the fillet is down then the masking tape is pulled leaving a uniform fillet with nice crisp lines and edges. I normally wait for 45 minutes to an hour before pulling the tape , easy way to tell is when the fillet is tacky to the touch so it is not runny and has not fully set or cured.
Fillets are normally done with wood flour and epoxy mix , the consistency is usually the same as some runny peanut butter.
The easy way to make the fillet uniform is to use masking tape out from the seam , about 1/4 inch from each side leaving a 1/2 inch area to fill.
Putting the fillet down is easy , I use a large syringe , which I fill with the fillet material and then inject it in the area I want it. To smooth it and make the thickness uniform I use an old charge card which I have bent to conform to the angle of the two pieces of wood.
After the fillet is down then the masking tape is pulled leaving a uniform fillet with nice crisp lines and edges. I normally wait for 45 minutes to an hour before pulling the tape , easy way to tell is when the fillet is tacky to the touch so it is not runny and has not fully set or cured.
Where can ya get those syringes and how big are they? And how many times ya think i'd have ta fill it up to do a 15 footer? Was thinking if i could find something to do the filetts with that came in something like a caulking cartridge probably wouldn't take but 3-4 tubes. Trying ta save some time but then i got plenty of time on my hands so it really wouldn't matter. Anyways, Thanks "Old Sparkey"!...Charlie
I get mine from Raka... http://www.raka.com/accesories.html
Often used for injecting epoxy into small holes or cracks. Often used when holes are drilled into rotten wood and then injected with epoxy.
12 cc - $1.50
60 cc - $4.50
The 60 cc syringe is ideal for doing fillets and it can be used over and over. When I use mine I make a batch for it and after laying down the bead of fillet then I clean it with acetone before using it again.
The 12cc is what I use for the epoxy when putting a bead of it along the seams to seal them.
Check around , you might be able to locate some locally , sometimes they are called Dental Syringes.
A 2 to 1 batch is good but I can make a double batch with the wood flour before having to clean the syringe and repeat the process. It is best to start with one batch and then as you get use to working it , double the batch but if it starts to set up then STOP and clean the syringe. A single mix is the best since you have more working time ( including cleaning everything ) before it sets up.
My way of doing it is to add the resin and then mix in the wood flour ( to a thicker mix then I want ) then add the hardener which will make the mix runnier and mix it really well. I go over to the boat and remove the plunger and add the fillet material to the syringe. The item I do that with is a flat tip screwdriver , it is used to scoop up the fillet mix and poke it down into the body of the syringe. When it is almost full I tap the tip of the syringe on a piece of wood to settle the mix in the syringe and remove any air bubbles. Then the plunger is slipped in the end and the fillet is put down along the seam.
A paper towel is handy to have to catch any that comes out the nozzle after the syringe is lifted from the seam. The process is repeated , my single mix will make two fillings for the syringe.
I have managed to get 10 to 12 feet from one batch of fillet mix , it all depends on how big you make the fillet.
When the 2nd one is gone then the syringe is cleaned in some acetone. The tip is put in the acetone , the plunger pulled back to draw the acetone into the syringe. Then I shake it to mix everything up and squirt it back into the container of acetone. The syringe is taken apart and both parts rinsed in the acetone till all of the fillet mix is gone.
A wide container helps , especially if the syringe will lay flat in the bottom so it is covered with the acetone.
If I have more filleting to do , I usually do , then the whole process is repeated from the beginning.
Make sure there aren't any open flames or a smoker in the area since acetone is very combustible , worse then gasoline for the threat of fire.
I use both sizes and have made 12 boats with the same ones , you can get a lot of mileage from them if you make sure to clean them after each batch.Also if the tip of the syringe is to small then a portion of it can be cut off to make a wider opening , I cut mine about a quarter inch up from the end.
Often used for injecting epoxy into small holes or cracks. Often used when holes are drilled into rotten wood and then injected with epoxy.
12 cc - $1.50
60 cc - $4.50
The 60 cc syringe is ideal for doing fillets and it can be used over and over. When I use mine I make a batch for it and after laying down the bead of fillet then I clean it with acetone before using it again.
The 12cc is what I use for the epoxy when putting a bead of it along the seams to seal them.
Check around , you might be able to locate some locally , sometimes they are called Dental Syringes.
A 2 to 1 batch is good but I can make a double batch with the wood flour before having to clean the syringe and repeat the process. It is best to start with one batch and then as you get use to working it , double the batch but if it starts to set up then STOP and clean the syringe. A single mix is the best since you have more working time ( including cleaning everything ) before it sets up.
My way of doing it is to add the resin and then mix in the wood flour ( to a thicker mix then I want ) then add the hardener which will make the mix runnier and mix it really well. I go over to the boat and remove the plunger and add the fillet material to the syringe. The item I do that with is a flat tip screwdriver , it is used to scoop up the fillet mix and poke it down into the body of the syringe. When it is almost full I tap the tip of the syringe on a piece of wood to settle the mix in the syringe and remove any air bubbles. Then the plunger is slipped in the end and the fillet is put down along the seam.
A paper towel is handy to have to catch any that comes out the nozzle after the syringe is lifted from the seam. The process is repeated , my single mix will make two fillings for the syringe.
I have managed to get 10 to 12 feet from one batch of fillet mix , it all depends on how big you make the fillet.
When the 2nd one is gone then the syringe is cleaned in some acetone. The tip is put in the acetone , the plunger pulled back to draw the acetone into the syringe. Then I shake it to mix everything up and squirt it back into the container of acetone. The syringe is taken apart and both parts rinsed in the acetone till all of the fillet mix is gone.
A wide container helps , especially if the syringe will lay flat in the bottom so it is covered with the acetone.
If I have more filleting to do , I usually do , then the whole process is repeated from the beginning.
Make sure there aren't any open flames or a smoker in the area since acetone is very combustible , worse then gasoline for the threat of fire.
I use both sizes and have made 12 boats with the same ones , you can get a lot of mileage from them if you make sure to clean them after each batch.Also if the tip of the syringe is to small then a portion of it can be cut off to make a wider opening , I cut mine about a quarter inch up from the end.
That's what i needed to know...sounds alot easier than i thought it'd be. Gonna order syringes tomorrow and should have em by next week this time. Meanwhile gonna start on my Boat this weekend. I'm really excited bout this, Thanks Much, will stay in touch...Charlie
You might try one of those "injectors" you use to inject spice into meat (turkey, chicken, wild boar, gator tail).
Another way used on this forum is to make your wood flour/resin mix then put it in a plastic bag (ZipLok), cut the corner out a little, and squeeze the pookie wherever you want it. Look at Walmart in the kitchen stuff, you'd be amazed with what they have that you can use in building a boat.
Another way used on this forum is to make your wood flour/resin mix then put it in a plastic bag (ZipLok), cut the corner out a little, and squeeze the pookie wherever you want it. Look at Walmart in the kitchen stuff, you'd be amazed with what they have that you can use in building a boat.
That sounds like a really good idea using those plastic ketchup bottles...would make a really neat bead and they're cheap! AND, i don't have to order them. Thanks "Phishtech"...Charlie
A bottle of epoxy might be way too much at a time. And, the plastic syringe could be easier to clean, with a straight barrel. I'd advise the syringe for the job.
I agree with idea of a syringe but I went a little further and went back to your liquid nails idea. I do all my all my fillets with Sika construction sealant ( found at your local orange box). It is waterproof and some body with too much spare time on their hands did some testing to find it even passed a 4hr. boil test. What is great about this stuff is it goes down like you are chalking your bath tub( use a ratcheting chalk gun). After the lay down spray your best smoothing finger with soapy water( I found this after great research on their instructional video on youtube) and along the fillet. Run your smoothing finger along the fillet and wipe excess on a paper towel. Re apply soapy water solution and repeat.
What is great about this stuff is the lack of wasted epoxy. When you are done seal with duck tape and store in air tight container. I use an old kitty litter container( clean). or an old mud bucket. Also, the bead looks great which is something i could not say about my epoxy fillets.
What is great about this stuff is the lack of wasted epoxy. When you are done seal with duck tape and store in air tight container. I use an old kitty litter container( clean). or an old mud bucket. Also, the bead looks great which is something i could not say about my epoxy fillets.
If you or should I say , when you glass the boat does the glass and epoxy stick to the fillet ??????
I'm standing by for one of BeeKeeper's tests. He does sensible tests, and gets surprising results that end up making sense.
I fiberglass seems to adhere just fine polyurthane glue. The epoxy seems to adhere just like it is wood. Beekeeper, I use chine logs but I seal the edges with the construction sealant so there are no gaps. I admit I am not the best at mixing up saw dust with epoxy for fillets. I sought alternatives that store better, do not run, are waterproof, are cheap, easy to find, and are easy to shape. My latest two boats use fiberglass dry wall tape bedded in construction adhesive in a S&G build. I am interested to see how it works. I caught wind of method using waterproof wood glue and fiberglass drywall tape. My tests on flat ply wood proves it could work.
Clarification? You taped the seam, then applied glue over the tape? The tape is glued into the boat?
This how did the last boat. I stitched the boat together, applied construction glue(Sika is the best and will not bubble up like PL Premium) between stitches, removed the stitches, applied a bead along the seam, applied two layers of drywall tape offset and then applied more glue until the tape is bedded. Next time I will try putting the tape down before I do the first bead.I think this will speed things up. Gavin Atkin in his book"Ultrasimple Boatbuilding" describes the procedure. I will try wet testing them this weekend. I only did this on the inside of the boats. On the outside I ran only construction sealant to fill the joints, sanded, applied three layers of epoxy along the whole hull, primed and painted. I am interested too, to see how it holds up in water. I will try to post some pictures.
I tried drywall tape on to wood then added resin on a little project/experiment a few years ago. It might well be fibreglass tape but its covered in adhesive. I remember thinking it seemed like a good idea at the time but never set really hard like "clean" glass under resin. I don't reckon the resin can permeate through the adhesive properly. Then there's the question of what chemicals are in the adhesive that might react, or NOT with the resin.
Cheers John.
Cheers John.
I agree drywall tape and epoxy do not work well together. However, drywall tape and construction sealant/ adhesive does. Epoxy over the whole thing seems to work.Also, Drywall tape and wood glue/sawdust work together.