What next?

[jdupre']

Well, "The Shiney One" aluminum sided pirogue left with another owner today. I let it go cheap and recouped about a third of what I had in it. Caught several meals of catfish out of it, enjoyed experimenting with a new design and have a couple of ideas I can incorporate into the next one. Fair enough.

Beekeeper and I went back and forth at the Rendezvous on the pros and cons of glass/epoxy/marine ply, glass/epoxy/cheap ply, marine ply/paint and exterior ply/paint. :? Got to say we still didn't exactly nail it down. :roll:

Marine ply , for me, means 150 mile round trip and either $110 for BS6566 Meranti ply or $170 for BS1088 Okume. I'd prefer not to use Douglas Fir marine ply,(checks badly) but even that is 100 miles and $120 for the two sheets I need.

Argueably , the "best" choice would be Okume covered with glass , spanish cedar or equivalent for the trim and $30 a quart marine varnish. I just can't justify, in my mind, the time, effort and expense of that option.

Me and beekeeper are still thinking.

Joey

 

[oldsparkey]

Joey....

That cheep plywood ( Luann) is no good and never will hold up , just ask anyone but me. :lol:

I still have the pirogue ( 16 feet 32 pounds ) that I made in 2001 out of $7.95 a sheet , 1/8th inch Luann and it is as good as the day I made it. The bottom graphite and epoxy mix has some minor scratches in it but that was expected to happen.

Grant you it is keep under cover , out of the weather , ( the workshop) when it is not being used and it is totally encapsulated in glass after a good epoxy saturation.
But a 12 year old boat with $15.00 of wood in it is pretty nice ( not counting the two strips of molding along the edges of it , rub rails ).

Don't get me wrong since I have made several boats out of the Okume ply , light weight glass , epoxy , costly marine varnish and even did several boat bottoms with some very , very, expensive Marine , Teflon , epoxy paint.

Chuck.

 

[jdupre']

Chuck, when I'm an official retired geezer, I'll attempt a real detailed build with top notch materials. Right now , I'm still working and don't have a lot of time. I want quick and easy. Not every endeavor in my life deserves an A+ effort. Some things just deserve a B or a C. I kind of like the idea of trying to make a silk purse out of a sows ear, too. Heck, anybody can make a silk purse out of ..........SILK. :roll: I really do enjoy and admire the builds on this site that people put 100% effort into.

Fiddling with a build for months on end, using every spare minute is not real appealing to me. I try to get my boats on the water so I can use the heck out of them. The Swamper has 60-70 trips on her and I stopped counting the miles a while ago at 600.

I was looking at the pirogue finishing procedures on JK Wood Studio. Now THIS guy is a perfectionist. 4 coats of epoxy, one or two fairing coats, 3-4 coats of primer, and 3-4 coats paint. The bright work gets 6-8 coats of varnish. All this with LOTS of sanding between coats. WHEW!!!!! :shock: Ain't gonna happen in my shop anytime soon. :roll:

Joey

 

[jdupre']

I've kind of been toying with some ideas for my next build. I know......this one is not finished yet, but you guys know how it is.

I've thought about what I might use the boat for, how easy it would be to build, maintain and transport. I figured what it needed for me to be able to get in and out of it in the tree and debris choked bayous and canals around here. Ironically, everything points back to a 14-15 foot pirogue with a 22-25" bottom with just a little side flair.......just what the people around here have settled on for many , many years. A pirogue this size can be handled easily by one person and can carry a passenger or a sizable payload.

My "ultimate" pirogue would most probably be built with epoxy and glass. As much as I love to build the old way, it's hard to beat the easy maintenance , beauty and toughness of the glass/epoxy hull. When the time comes, I'll go with the best stuff I can find........ okume marine ply or solid wood strips, good epoxy and top notch marine varnish.

Joey

 

[Kayak Jack]

Shucks, Joey, I know where there's a good road sign, lots of good tin and some wood, you could ....... :wink:

 

[Wannabe]

Shucks, Joey, I know where there's a good road sign, lots of good tin and some wood, you could ....... :wink:

That road sign plywood is good stuff. I forget the name of it but it has to be the best plywood made. It would be nice if they made it thin enough to build boats out of.
Bob

 

[tx river rat]

Joey
the s s and glue is hard to beat ,cheap, stiff and no delaminations.
If you can get hold of a planner ,rig you a table out of a sheet of ply .
Glue up 12 inch wide panels ,run through the planner ,easy fast and tough.
I dont think I will ever build out of ply again.
Ron

 

[jdupre']

Ron, I am considering that too. Strange idea. Ever saw quarter sawn sycamore? Unbelievable figure!
Had an idea to use strips of that plus some other woods for contrast.

Joey

 

[tx river rat]

Joey
The use of strips opens up all kind of options.
Ron

 

[makenmend]

I started out using the underlayment ply found in the big box stores and I think it's the way to go for (a) a beginner, no real worry of wasting expensive wood on mistakes. (b) prototyping, where again the expence is a large consideration.

One of my earlier boats (TV 15-29) was built this way and fully glasses/encapsulated. It's done quit a few river trips, even the Devils in 2010. so it has had it's share of abuse, it is kept outside but out of elements as much as possible. This past Feb after my latest Brazos trip I found a 6'' dia area below the seat was soft. When I cut into the area what I found was the thin outer veneer had delaminated from the core, the glass and veneer were still well and truly bonded. I ended up sanding out the damaged section then building back with thickened epoxy 6 oz cloth (4 layers) and final epoxy/grafite, looks OK and has been in use with no problems.

If I had used marine ply this probably would never have happened, but then again the boat has, and still is giving good service, so the choice is an personnel thing, What I see in the stores today though is of lesser quality, so now I feel comfortable hacking up wood I'm more inclined to use marine ply for the bottom and strips for the rest, resulting in a still pretty light boat that will last quite a while.

MM

 

[jdupre']

MM, the cheaper wood IS a viable choice, especially for a new builder or even an experienced builder trying a new design. When you start having to ship quality marine ply in, it's gets expensive in a hurry. A new builder is liable to make mistakes and ruin a couple of C notes of prime wood. Better, I think, to practice on the less expensive wood. I'd about bet the bank that cabinetmakers in training don't start the first day (or the first 6 months) with the finest burled wood veneers and ebony.

As far as the bending, cutting and sanding behavior of marine douglas fir as opposed to sanded exterior pine ply, I don't see much difference at all. I'm sure okume works better with tools but I've also read it is somewhat brittle and splintery.

Ron, I'm thinking the strip panel method is going to really catch on for stitch and glue panel costruction. You can pick the species of wood you want and not have to worry about delamination. Seems to be quite a bit cheaper too. Cheaper and better......what's not to like?

Joey