What makes it a Jon Boat?

[FlaMike]

I've seen it spelled both with and without the "h," and both as one word, and as two words.

Jon boat, jonboat, john boat, and johnboat. And sometimes with a hypen, well, of course! Now THAT part I really don't care about. Looking at Uncle John's web site, I see he calls it a jon boat, so I'll go with that.

But what makes it a "jon boat?" From looking at Uncle John's plans and others around the web, I'm thinking it has a flat bottom, with an upwards curve towards the bow. And there seems to be none at the back end. But if the bottom is not flat, from side-to-side, then I think it is no longer a jon boat.

Now, when I think of a jon boat, I'm also thinking of a square bow as well. I have heard others say it can have more of a "V" shaped bow, but the bottom itself is still flat, so it's still a jon boat. I not so sure I buy that idea.

As far as the back end goes, the transom will rake aft, but the bottom doesn't curve up to meet it.

So, why am I getting all nit-picky about this? I'm looking at a boat design that looks just like a classic jon boat, but it's different in one regard. And I think that one difference is enough to separate it out from being just another jon boat.

If that doesn't seem important to anyone, I certainly do understand. But it is important to me, because I'm really interested in boats that are unique to their origins. And in my case, that would be boats that are unique to Florida.

The boat I'm talking about is one described by Totch Brown, a man cut from just about the same cloth as Glen Simmons was. It was from Glen Simmons' book that I built my Glade Skiff. And Totch's book describes what he called a "Pit Pot." NOTE, there is NO "s" in that name!

It was a very small boat, 8 feet long, that could be dragged overland for short distances if need be, while hunting for things that might not have been entirely legal. A simple, cheap, knock-about little thing. Easy to build and transport. And most of all, sufficient unto the task.

At first glance, it appears to be a jon boat. But what I'm thinking is that the one little difference is enough to say it is something other than a jon boat. The difference being that the same upwards curve of the bottom at the bow is repeated at the stern. The upwards curve is not as pronounce, but it is there. And since I've not seen that elsewhere, I'm thinking that this "pit pot" is truly a regional design.

I have a set of drawing that were made from one of Totch's pit pots, the one on display at the old Smallwood store, which is now a museum down in Chokoloskee, FL.

So, am a way off base? Or is this a native to Florida boat, like the Glade Skiff? (And something I need to build!)

Mike S.
Spring Hill, FL

 

[Kayak Jack]

Like you, Mike, I was never sure either. I merely looked at whatever was offered under the name. They all looked to me like heavy duty mortar boxes, used to hand mix mortar or concrete with a hoe. Most were made in a small shop, in a backyard, and then all got subjected to the same, hideous green paint job. Then, camo became popular, and the hideous colors changed a bit.

To be a true jon boat, it has to be clumsy to use, badly designed, square ended, flat bottomed, and heavier than cast iron. As Crocodile Dundee might say, " Now THAT'S a boat!"

 

[FlaMike]

To be a true jon boat, it has to be clumsy to use, badly designed, square ended, flat bottomed, and heavier than cast iron.

:lol: Maybe that should be THE definition! I like it, anyway.

Mortar box, that sounds about right. Totch's pit pot would probably make a better mortar mixer than a standard jon boat, as the bottom does curve up at both ends. That way, you could mix from either end.

As it stands right now, I've pretty much convinced myself that it is just different enough for me to call it a traditional Florida design, making it one that I just have to build.

At least it will be easy to carry in the truck, its only 8 ft long, 27 1/2 inches across the bottom and 30 inches across the gunnels. Nearly straight sided. Both the bow plate and the transom are angled, the bow a little more than the transom, with a 3 inch "rocker" at the bow, just 2 inches at the stern. No built in seats, either. This boat was meant to be poled, or paddled.

In fact, the design includes a "91.5 in cypress push pole, with a gator hook" on the end. Guess I'm going to need some more plywood. . .

Mike S.
Spring Hill, FL

 

[mike]

I agree with your definition, Mike. Curved up to a square bow, straight, or slightly raked in the stern and a flat bottom. The sides flare a bit, but not too much.

Mike

 

[Kayak Jack]

The operative statement here is, "I guess I'm going to need some more plywood...."

The bug has bitten, and the patient is unrecoverable. :wink:

 

[oldsparkey]

Totch Brown's little Pit Pot was made for getting into areas where other boats could not go. If you will remember he liked to sink it in the area he was hunting so the boat was there and no one could locate it. Usually near his skinned out Gator hides which he would return to when it was safe to get them.
Yep , sometimes he did use it to cover long distances , especially when he wanted to be somewhere and not let anyone know he was going there or there.
I would call it a Jon Boat just due to the shape it was , a sawed off 10 foot Jon Boat. As Jack said ...A Mortar box which is a lot better description of it. :lol:

A Jon Boat to me is the same shape that an Air Boat hull would be , curved up bow with a flat bottom and a straight transom.

 

[jdupre']

Mike, that Pit Pot sounds like what some would call a punt. I think a the classic john boat is more suited to being propelled by a motor as is has a more raked bow and a flat stern. A punt is more for hauling people and supplies short distances by paddle and push pole. As with lot of designs, there are a lot of gray areas where designs kind of meld into each other.

Joey

 

[FlaMike]

I appreciate all the answers!

But I am over the obsessing part about what it is or isn't. Mostly because I've decided that this particular variant has found it's way into Florida history, I am going to build one. And I'll try to keep it as close to "true" as I can, from the drawing I've located, the very few pics I've found on the 'Net, and Totch's description in his book.

Of course, I can't start 'til Monday, as I'm still working my usual Fri, Sat, & Sun, 7PM-7AM. I'll pick up what I need to get started on my way home from work, Monday morning. Since my one and only pair of saw horses are currently holding the Glade Skiff up off the garage floor, I'll be getting some 2X4's to make another pair of those, and I've ordered another gallon of that varnish I got from Larry at Raka, since it worked so well on the Glade Skiff and it needs another coat or two. I plan on varnishing the inside of this boat, since I like the way that looks and it makes a pretty good not-so-slick surface when wet, and I found out that there's no need to add anything to it to make it non-skid.

Since this boat will be painted on the outsides and bottom, I guess I'll have to build it "inside-out." :lol: I mean, the outsides and bottom will be painted but the entire inside of the boat will get varnished. So this time, the "footballs" will go out the outside of the boat where they won't be seen under the paint.

Besides, I think the "look" will go well with my new hat and back pack that I ordered from Real Deal Brazil. It pays to accessorize! 8)

Joey,

Somewhere, I have some plans for what was called a "poling punt." It sounds just like what you were talking about. I'll see if I can find them.

Mike S.
Spring Hill, FL

 

[FlaMike]

Seems I seldom miss an opportunity to embarrass myself!

Totch Brown's little boat was called a "Pit Pan." Not a "pit pot" as I wrote earlier in this thread. Seems there was something about "not having a 'pot to pit in" or something along those lines that may have lead to my confustion. :roll: Anyway, it's a Pit Pan.

Joey,

Finally remembered where that drawing is for one that sounds like the punt you mentioned. It's a Gavin Atkin design, called the "Lilypad." It is in his book, "Ultrasimple Boat Building" along with 16 other designs. Here's a link to a pdf version of the book: http://www.mojaladja.com/upload/McGraw-Hill-Ultrasimple-Boat-Building-(2007).pdf

When it downloads, jump down to page 106 (even though the table of contents says page 97.) This is where that design is. scroll down past the drawings and text, there is a photo of the boat itself. While you are at it, there's much there worth reading and looking at.

Pit Pot !?! Where do I get this stuff? Pit Pan, Pit Pan, Pit Pan! Pit Pan!

Mike S.
Spring Hill, FL

 

[Kayak Jack]

Mikey, you mighta been thinking of the two snakes who were so poor that they didn't have a pit to hiss in.

 

[FlaMike]

Two snakes that didn't have a. . . Ooooooooh, guess that'll teach me. :lol:

This isn't a build thread and I won't be turning it into one. Past two days was rain, rain, rain. Today I was able to get out there and get something started. Sliced & diced up some 2X4's and made a pair of saw horses. No flimsy metal brackets this time, I made a fairly sturdy pair using the "I" beam method.

Only took about an hour to stop the bleeding. :shock:

And then there was the prolonged re-hydration break. . . :roll:

In the morning, I''ll go out and get a couple more 2X4's and some other incidentals, and hopefully make enough progress to get some pics together for a build thread, probably in the Pirogue section. Who knows, maybe there's someone out there who's never seen a mortar mixing tub made out of plywood!

Mike S.
Spring Hill, FL

 

[Kayak Jack]

Googleize "mouse boat"

 

[Wannabe]

Only took about an hour to stop the bleeding

Mike,
Get some spiders in your shop corners. If you have trouble stopping the bleeding put spider webs on the cut and the bleeding will stop. I have put some dirty, dusty, nasty looking webs on cuts before and never had one get infected. My Mother told me that they used to use stove soot to stop the bleeding on cut cows and horses. Do not use soot or shaved pencil lead on yourself unless you want a tattoo of your cut. However "any port in a storm". If you take blood thinners, Spiders are your friends.
Bob

 

[Kayak Jack]

Powdered alum. You know it as styptic pencil. Carry a 35mm film can of it camping to stop bleeding in an emergency. Say, when you use a hatchet to cut your leg instead of firewood.

It will also help to clean dirty water. Toss some into a container of dirty water, and it will coagulate impurities, and they settle to the bottom.

 

[FlaMike]

Thanks for the first aid tips!

I've known about cobwebs from back when I was in the FFA, raising a steer for the fair. We had a vet come buy to poll (de-horn) a calf and he hit a bleeder. He sent all of us into the barn to gather cobwebs, explaining that chemically, it was pretty much identical to fibrinogen, the stuff in blood that normally turns into clots.

I also hear that the alum can be used for waterproofing canvas.

Went out between the rain storms today and picked up the extra 2X4's I wanted, another square, some paint and various brushes, along with something called Kakadu Trader's Microwax. It's some kind of wax material for treating leather. I need that for my Real Deal Brazil hat and rucksack. Both made from recycled cargo truck canvas, down in Brazil. If you haven't seen them, take a look, here: http://www.realdealbrazil.com (Got the original tarp hat and the Belem backpack.) Now I'll use that Austrailian wax stuff to waterproof them. Without it, that hat will sink like a stone! :shock:

And as for googling "mouse boat," the link I gave above for the Lilypad poling punt, includes plans for at least 4 different versions of the Mouse, including the original.

Mike S.
Spring Hill, FL

 

[Kayak Jack]

We handsome fellas wear Akubra hats.

 

[FlaMike]

Handsome? I'm sure that the right hat can make all the difference in the world.

Guess that's what the "Real Deal Brazil" people think, too. It would explain their catch phrase, "Keeping it Real."

Example:

Wonder if this fine, young lad builds boats too? :wink: Bet he'd fit right in!

Mike S.
Spring Hill, FL

 

[Kayak Jack]

Too handsome for this group of ruffians and cowans.