UJ Pirogue w/o Fiberglass

[crkdltr]

Just looking for some friendly advise for an acquaintance.

He wants to build a Pirouge with his son but not use fiberglass. I figure the UJ pirouge would work best due to the stems and ribs.

But there's a term or technique for using small strips of wood along the bottom so the sides and bottom would have a strong joint and I can't think of it.

Any help/input/advice?

Thanks.

 

[bluegrasslover]

I'm interested in this as well. There was a thread not too long ago where several of us were saying how much we despised the glassing portion of the build and a couple people (seedtick and bearridge I believe) said to not use it. If anyone can provide details/tips on how to build a watertight boat w/o fiberglass that would be great. I want to do smaller uj pirogue without fiberglass.

 

[oldsparkey]

But there's a term or technique for using small strips of wood along the bottom so the sides and bottom would have a strong joint and I can't think of it.

Thanks.

I think this is what you are looking for. ( we do the same with the fillets when making a boat , the filler between the sides and the bottom)

CHINE (Chine log)
The junction of the side and bottom planking or the member backing this junction.
DOUBLE CHINE - Having an additional planking junction between the chine and the sheer, giving the hull a more rounded look.
HARD CHINE- Having a distinct bottom/side planking junction as opposed to a rounded curve.
MULTI-CHINE - Having one or more additional planking junctions between the chine and the sheer.
****************************************************************************************************************************************************

I know you don't want to hear this ....BUT... I would suggest to at lease fiberglass tape the outside seams of the boat. If not then use some good marine grade wood to build the boat.

After Thought......
You might get by with a good epoxy saturating of the boat , ( No Glass) to help waterproof it , then a light sanding and paint. ( I know in the old days they did not use epoxy , they did have it available then)

Chuck.

 

[crkdltr]

The guy I'm asking for was going to build it out of cypress and then coat it liberally with varnish.

 

[oldsparkey]

The guy I'm asking for was going to build it out of cypress and then coat it liberally with varnish.

That will be one beautiful Pirogue like Keith and Seedtick do.

By the way if he gets the kit from Uncle John , all his kits are Cypress so the whole boat would be Cypress. When he gets it done how about posting pictures of it in the bragging section and don't forget to send them to Uncle John , He would love to see it.

Chuck.

 

[seedtick]

if he's going to build it out of cypress planks, he likely doesn't need chines

we use chines on plywood boats so you have something to nail to when joining the bottom and sides - edge nailing 1/4" plywood doesn't give avery strong joint

bring your buddy out to Bass Pro and look at the plank boats we built for them or give me a call and come out to friend Keith's shop one day and we'll discuss building without fillets, glass and epoxy

 

[JEM]

would epoxy be used to seal the seams? Or would it be the really old/traditional method with nothing sealing the seams except tight joints?

A term that is sometimes used for sealing a seam with no fiberglass but using strips of wood glued over the seam is "seam battens". I believe Chuck built a canoe like this.

 

[oldsparkey]

would epoxy be used to seal the seams? Or would it be the really old/traditional method with nothing sealing the seams except tight joints?

A term that is sometimes used for sealing a seam with no fiberglass but using strips of wood glued over the seam is "seam battens". I believe Chuck built a canoe like this.

I will never tell...........

Chuck

 

[gbinga]

Lot's of threads on building boats with chines / chine logs instead of epoxy fillets and glass.

I built my UJ pirogue with chines instead of fillets, using 1/4" plywood for the skin and ripping bevelled strips of mahogany for the chines. I did glass the outside, though. Figured it would take a beating what with transport, launching, running up on rocks on the shoreline, etc.

I think for the advice to get more specific than it has already, we need to know whether you are building out of planks, or plywood.

GBinGA

 

[crkdltr]

if he's going to build it out of cypress planks, he likely doesn't need chines

we use chines on plywood boats so you have something to nail to when joining the bottom and sides - edge nailing 1/4" plywood doesn't give avery strong joint

bring your buddy out to Bass Pro and look at the plank boats we built for them or give me a call and come out to friend Keith's shop one day and we'll discuss building without fillets, glass and epoxy

Good info, thanks seedtick. In talking with him I told him to go look at those pirogues at bass pro, knowing you had built them, and he said that's what inspired him to ask me about the process... :lol:

I've referred him to UJ and to your site Keith as well as Chuck's site here. So he should have all the support he will need. I think he told me he's a cabinet maker so I'm sure this won't be to difficult for him.

That will be one beautiful Pirogue like Keith and Seedtick do.

I thought seedtick was keith? :?:

 

[seedtick]

The modern boat builder has more options for making water tight joints than "Carter has pills" (for those of you who remember Carter's little liver pills )

Around here the first plank boats were cypress and when you put it in the water, the wood swelled up and stopped the leaks. A 12" wide cypress plank will expand 1/4 " going from dry to wet. The drawback to this is that the boat had to stay in the water or you had to wait for it to "take up" if you let it dry out. My Dad had an old cypress bateau built that way and I know of a couple of old putt putts still around that were built like that.

The first glue that I know of was Weldwood. It is a tan powder that you mix with water. I don't know how long it's been around but my Dad used it for his "new" bateau in the early 50s, I used for my first boat in the early 70s and friend Keith and I have used it as have many old builders. So it's safe to say it's been around for over 50 years, used for thousands of boats and it's still a good glue. However the label says for interior use only, so it's not truly water resistant. It's also somewhat brittle and isn't a real good gap filler. It's not very forgiving if you can't make tight seams.

Technology marches on and today there's resorcinals (sp?), aliphatics (titebond III, e.g.), polyurethanes, caulk type glues (3M 5200), epoxy and bunches more that I probaly don't know about. All have their pros and cons. In addition to weldwood, we've used titebond III, urethane, 5200 and epoxy. I personally like epoxy, you can mix small batches, it has a decent open (working) time and, with the addition of wood flour, you can make it any viscosity you want.

 

[Kayak Jack]

My Dad used Roger's Fish Glue in the 40's to build boats. And brass screws too. It stunk like Vietnamese fish sauce.

 

[bearridge]

I thought seedtick was keith?

nope.....they jest been workin' together fer quite a spell....but at times, mebbe he iz?

 

[ribor]

I did not use any fiberglass (and epoxy... it is too cold in my garage!) on my "kind of pirogue"

...
Only chine, some screws, and Sikaflex (polyurethane adhesive sealant).
Her weigth is under 33kg (32,8!) for nearly 5 metre long (and 5mm exterior plywood)... With epoxy/fiberglass, I think it will be more.
RiBor
PS: Few more infos in my last post just before hollydays ("french splash..."), and I will do a "blog" about the build in the next future (I am just back from hollydays!).

 

[beekeeper]

crkdltr

Any progress? Pictures?

Thanks
beekeeper