Recent Pirogues | SouthernPaddler.com

Recent Pirogues

seedtick

Well-Known Member
Jul 22, 2006
1,161
7
Denham Springs, LA
Piper's post about the Boy Scouts reminded me that I haven't posted some of this year's boats

so here's a few shots

a dugout

IMG_4774.jpg


swamp style plank pirogue

IMG_4776.jpg


marsh style plank pirogue

IMG_4783.jpg


seems like a lot of folks were building strippers so here's a marsh style stripper we built just for kicks

IMG_4791.jpg
 

oldsparkey

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2003
10,479
123
Central , Florida
www.southernpaddler.com
Seedtick.....

All those boat"s are beauties and would be a shame to even think about getting them wet but that has to be where they really shine.
You and Fried Keith don't make boats , you guy's make masterpieces of the boat building art. :D

Chuck.
 

hairymick

Well-Known Member
Dec 8, 2005
2,107
2
Queensland, Australia
Ticky,
As usual, you have raised the bar for all of we mere mortals in our attempts to build nice boats.

Please talk to me about your marsh pirogues. How do they differ in dimensions to the normal ones? What are the advantages of the raised bow with the very low, downswept mid section in the sides?

Enquiring minds need to know. :D

Respectfully,

Mick
 

gbinga

Well-Known Member
Nov 7, 2008
736
2
Hoschton, GA
hairymick said:
Please talk to me about your marsh pirogues. How do they differ.....

Ditto!! The marsh style is prettier than... I don't even know what. But there have to be some reasons behind that shape.

Educate us, please.

George
 

rhutchinson

Well-Known Member
Jan 18, 2008
138
0
Middle Tn.
Seedtick, is that the finished dugout that we watched you make step by step?

Richard

P.S. Words can't describe....as has been already said, each one a work of art by master craftmen.
 

seedtick

Well-Known Member
Jul 22, 2006
1,161
7
Denham Springs, LA
thanks for the kind words folks,
I'll try to answer your questions as best I can, feel free to ask more if you like

first the short, easy ones........

It's a 1957 John Deere model 620 that belongs to a friend of mine who collects John Deere's and probably the best sounding tractor I've ever heard

IMG_4771.jpg


the dugout is the one we made this spring

On to pirogues

South LA has had thousands of pirogue builders starting with the dugouts of the native American Indians, the introduction of iron tools by the first Europeans in the 1600's, the use of planks and nails starting in the 1800's, plywood starting after WWII and the more recent fiberglass, aluminum and other materials.
Moving away from the dugout era, where the shape of the boat pretty much had to follow the shape of the log, plank building gave the builders the freedom to customize the boats for the specific needs of the person wanting the boat. The result was a wide variety of pirogue styles. The old boat builders kept their plans in their heads. Their design- even though it may be handed down for several generations-was their secret and many were extremely reluctant to let it out. Friend Keith and I know an 87 year old boat builder that still building boats whose lips are sealed when it comes to his design.

We've even run across a couple of strippers from the late 1800's - one built in Hackberry and one built north of New Orleans - no epxoy and glass, the strips were 3/4" X 3/4" edge nailed. Narrow, flat bottomed pirogues with soft chines. One even had a place for a sail.

The style that many folks identify with a pirogue - plywood, flat bottom, near vertical sides, 3 or 4 ribs - was not a widespread design. It's been popular for 20 years because it's easy and quick to build and the advent of glass and resin has made it an ideal boat for a beginner with limited woodworking skills. Don't get me wrong here, I'm not dissing the boat or the builders.

Back to the pics i've posted,
The swamp pirogue has 24" bottom, 26 degree side flare, ribs and a couple of inches of rocker

The marsh pirogue has a 24" bottom, 36 degree side flare, no ribs and almost no rocker

The swamp pirogue was made - obviously - for folks navigating the swamps. The boat beam was narrower for squeezing thru the trees and stumps, The rocker gave it the abilty to turn easily and the ribs added strength. The ultimate swamp pirogue, built by a man that actually the logged as a young man, had 9 ribs and about 4 inches of rocker. That was the proverbial "brick outhouse" of pirogues and it was strong enough that if a tree limb fell on him while logging, he could still get home.

IMG_4781.jpg


In the marsh, the trees may be half a mile apart so there's not a lot of need to maneuver. The marsh man is looking for stability and load capacity given by the wide flare, tracking given by no rocker and he could make a lighter boat - no ribs -because he wasn't worried about anything falling on him.. The man in the marsh spent a lot of time poling instead of paddling. That little hump in the bow gives you a little more wave breaking ability that is needed in the marsh but not needed in the flat waters of the swamp.

There were as many different styles as there were boatbuilders, each style tweaked to the builder's preference. Even though we may build something different, it's likely that's it's not a "new" innovation.
 

Kayak Jack

Well-Known Member
Aug 26, 2003
13,976
171
87
Okemos / East Lansing Michigan
Interesting, Seedtick. We have talked on her about location specific, but I think it gets even more specific than that. It gets "situation specific".

Think of a patch of water, say, 50' long and 10' wide for a location. Now figure different situation for wind (none, strong from near shore with eddies, strong from across the lake with high waves, etc.); current (up stream, downstream, across, eddy); water level (high in spring runoff, low in autumn); activity (a lazy day paddle with a camera, fishing, expedition with camp gear); etc. Each situation may make us wish we had a boat that is bit different - or maybe a WHOLE lot different than the one we happen to be in at the time.

Back to the John Deere a minute. Older John Deere tractors, and that looks like it has one, had a two cylinder engine cast right into the frame of the tractor. They had a unique sound, partly because of the firing order of the cylinders. Number one would fire, a half revolution of crank rotation later # 2 would fire. The crank went around one and a half times before #1 fired again. The two explosions were so close together, they sounded like one. You couldn't separate the sound of the two explosions until the engine was running at a very, slow idle, about to die.

My Granddad had an old "D" model, called the "mortgage buster" by many farmers because it was so powerful and reliable. It started by throwing the flywheel around by hand. You had to open two petcocks to relieve compression, back up the wheel against compression, roll it over, close the petcocks, and could then switch fuel tanks from gasoline to distillate (kerosene).
 

hairymick

Well-Known Member
Dec 8, 2005
2,107
2
Queensland, Australia
G'day Ticky,

Thanks mate. appreciate it and the back ground you give on these boats is is way more informative and specific that anything I have been able to uncover on the web. Even though we have very little in the way of extensive marshes here, i can the the benefiets of such a design.

I am feeling a strange need come over me. somehting I haven't felt in quite a while. :D
 

catfish

Well-Known Member
Feb 7, 2007
996
3
jesup, ga.
dang k jack whered you learn about tractors? :mrgreen: :shock: :? :lol: :lol: i guess you do know about something besides gritzzz. :wink: my uncle used to have one also i don,t remenber what model it was? those old tractors you are talking about do sound good . they have that disnict sound pop pop pop . :D

one thing for sure they don,t make tractors like that any more. they were made out of real sheet metal not plastic. also they lasted like you said . i guess they didn,t sell many like that.
 

beekeeper

Well-Known Member
Mar 4, 2009
1,917
59
Thanks for the post. The boats look even better than the pictures. :) Is there a functional reason the marsh pirogue has rounded stems? Are both types asymetrical fish shaped? Why?

beekeeper
 

seedtick

Well-Known Member
Jul 22, 2006
1,161
7
Denham Springs, LA
don't know any functional reason to use a rounded stem over a straight one -the guy that showed us how to build a marsh style used rounded stems, the guy with the swamp style didn't, I personally like the rounded stem. It's a little harder to build but adds interesting lines to an interesting boat.


they're slightly assymmetrical with the wide part in the front, that's the way the old folks that we connected with built them, they believed it made for an easier paddling boat because you weren't pushing water along the length of the boat but shedding water once you got past the wide spot. Their customers were folks that made their living out of a boat so i can only assume they know what suited them best.
 

oldsparkey

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2003
10,479
123
Central , Florida
www.southernpaddler.com
Dad had two tractors a John Deer with the side mounted fly wheel you had to spin to start it , that was not a lot of fun. The other was a International Harvester Farmall Cub which I used most of the time , it was easy to start.

Do have to admit that Deer when running was something , it just putted along with the slow ploop , ploop , ploop no matter what you had behind it and would go all day.

Chuck.
 

Wannabe

Well-Known Member
Apr 5, 2007
2,645
2
on the bank of Trinity Bay
Seedtick,
That red one is a bit older than the Farmall B my Dad had when I was a little feller. He also had one of the old flywheel John Deeres. When I was in about the first or second grade when he was breaking land he would hook the J.D. up to the turning plow and make a round put me on the tractor, tell me to keep the front wheels in the ditch, put the tractor in gear and let me go. Thought my stuff didn't stink.
Bob
 

oldsparkey

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2003
10,479
123
Central , Florida
www.southernpaddler.com
The one we had was like this one...... Minus the sickle bar that was fun to mow grass with. But am more then familiar with the cultivator ( I called them back scratches ) they have on this on in front of the back tires. Covered a lot of miles , up and down rows with one of them.
By the way , it also made a good buggy ( with a cart for the camping gear ) behind it as a vehicle to get away from everything for some camping. :D

left_side_w_cults.jpg


Chuck.
 

catfish

Well-Known Member
Feb 7, 2007
996
3
jesup, ga.
seed tick that is a nice looking old tractor too. chuck i am more familar wit hthe one you posted. my uncle had one about that same model. the one good thing i like about these tractors you can see what you are plowing instead of looking back . :) with the tractors today before you know it sometimes you get out of the row alittle bit & ut oh. :( :lol:
 

WDfrmTN

Well-Known Member
catfish said:
seed tick that is a nice looking old tractor too. chuck i am more familar wit hthe one you posted. my uncle had one about that same model. the one good thing i like about these tractors you can see what you are plowing instead of looking back . :) with the tractors today before you know it sometimes you get out of the row alittle bit & ut oh. :( :lol:
That's what Farmall marketed as "Cultivision".