I attempted to repair a reflecting compass with Gorilla Glue. The mirror had popped out of its mount. What a mess!!!! I wouldn't use that stuff ever again.
Pirogue build in Delaware
- Thread starter mds
- Start date
A note on Gorilla Glue. . . .
There's a 4 to 1 expansion ratio with the stuff. . . . When I use it, I rout a glue channel . . . . for example I would trace where the gussets would rest then rout me a small channel 1/8" wide and 1/8" deep about 1/4" in from the edge in the area where the gusset would rest. .. when applying the glue I brush it on in a thin coat, making sure that that are is a bit rough so I have open pores for the glue to expand into the wood. . . I know this is bit of a pain in a lot of instances and might not have been practical in mds' case but you guys might want to try it some time and see how it works for you. . . I know it works well for me. . . .
Jack, in your case, I'd have used epoxy. . . .. . :lol:
There's a 4 to 1 expansion ratio with the stuff. . . . When I use it, I rout a glue channel . . . . for example I would trace where the gussets would rest then rout me a small channel 1/8" wide and 1/8" deep about 1/4" in from the edge in the area where the gusset would rest. .. when applying the glue I brush it on in a thin coat, making sure that that are is a bit rough so I have open pores for the glue to expand into the wood. . . I know this is bit of a pain in a lot of instances and might not have been practical in mds' case but you guys might want to try it some time and see how it works for you. . . I know it works well for me. . . .
Jack, in your case, I'd have used epoxy. . . .. . :lol:
Had I known what the characteristics of the glue were, I'd have used airplane glue. ANYTHING that I don't have to do so much prep for as Gorilla Glue.Steve said:
I've never used Gorilla glue, but sure as heck won't now. Are there any GOOD atributes to this glue? Haven't heard any yet.
MDS, you're doing a fine job on the boat.
Joey
MDS, you're doing a fine job on the boat.
Joey
jdupre' said:
It's one-part, so you don't have to mix anything.
It's waterproof, ok for exterior applications.
Seems to be pretty strong.
We've been griping about the mess and clean-up, but if it is an application where you can get an orbital sander on the squeeze-out, it is easier to sand than thickened epoxy.
I built some oars with it for a previous boat, and they held up well and look fine.
On the other hand, it does make a mess, it ain't particularly cheap, once you open the bottle you can kiss it goodbye pretty quickly. And because it keeps foaming up and squeezing out for quite a while, you can't "preclean" the squeeze-out like you can with epoxy, going around with a putty knife and scraping off the excess so that you have less sanding to do later. You never know when it is going to quit oozing.
I wouldn't say the stuff is useless, but it is hard to get enthusiastic about it.
George
gbinga said:
I drill me a hole in a chuck of 2x4, and when I put the cap back on, I set it nozzle down in the hole so the air is up in the bottles bottom rather than in the nozzle end. . . .that way I don't have to worry about throwing a bottle away that's all foamed out at the nozzle. . . .
I've used it for several applications, from model building, to glueing furniture back together. it is messy but i haven't had it fail yet, mostly indoor applications.
so I decided to give it the "redneck" test.
I scarfed a 1x4 (cheeeeeep white wood) and applied thin coat on both pieces. put some weight on it and let it cure for two days.
then i sunk the whole scarf joint in a bucket of water with a brick to keep it submerged for two days.
joint did not turn loose but the cheeeep wood quit.
no pics, wasn't thinking.
maybe i'll try again later.
ggraham
so I decided to give it the "redneck" test.
I scarfed a 1x4 (cheeeeeep white wood) and applied thin coat on both pieces. put some weight on it and let it cure for two days.
then i sunk the whole scarf joint in a bucket of water with a brick to keep it submerged for two days.
joint did not turn loose but the cheeeep wood quit.
no pics, wasn't thinking.
maybe i'll try again later.
ggraham
Did some filleting and sealing last weekend to get use to the epoxy. It has been a few years since I did much with any quantity. The plastic spoon makes a nice fillet, thanks Chuck. I used 4 oz epoxy with equal parts Aerosil and wood flour (home made). A little rough but sands well.
I am working on the bulkheads so I can use one mix for the rest of the fillets and the bulkhead. Here are the picture of the sub frame. I am thinking two plys with the inner ply hole sawed for less weight. The bulkhead and hatch with also be two plys with edge support like the top.
As for my garage being too clean, what you don't see is all the draws filled with stuff and piles here and there. The containers are filled will stuff that would be on the floor but I hate tripping over it. I also have about 450 sq ft in the basement that is just for my over-flow from the garage. The wife has been kind enough
, with my building her a bunch of other stuff, to let me use her parking space and keep her car outside. Winter is coming and she will want back in. I also have to keep the area around the boat clean because it is the through way into the house and the kids and I would drag more stuff inside. That would not go over well.
It took 7 years to put drawers in my bench, another 2 years for the peg board. Only the parts storage with the tackle boxes, 19 of them, is old (10 yrs) and it is one of the best things I ever made. It's in a few pictures, made from scraps but organizes all the hardware so I can find it.
I am working on the bulkheads so I can use one mix for the rest of the fillets and the bulkhead. Here are the picture of the sub frame. I am thinking two plys with the inner ply hole sawed for less weight. The bulkhead and hatch with also be two plys with edge support like the top.
As for my garage being too clean, what you don't see is all the draws filled with stuff and piles here and there. The containers are filled will stuff that would be on the floor but I hate tripping over it. I also have about 450 sq ft in the basement that is just for my over-flow from the garage. The wife has been kind enough
, with my building her a bunch of other stuff, to let me use her parking space and keep her car outside. Winter is coming and she will want back in. I also have to keep the area around the boat clean because it is the through way into the house and the kids and I would drag more stuff inside. That would not go over well. It took 7 years to put drawers in my bench, another 2 years for the peg board. Only the parts storage with the tackle boxes, 19 of them, is old (10 yrs) and it is one of the best things I ever made. It's in a few pictures, made from scraps but organizes all the hardware so I can find it.
Had the day off so I did some work. The structure is complete for one end. I need to drill the hole for the plate and do the glue up. I made a substructure and I want it strong. The bulkhead is also a double ply.
The top plate has a good fit but needs a little pressure during glue up.
The top plate has a good fit but needs a little pressure during glue up.
Worked some this weekend and tonight. The top covers and bulkheads are done.
I have to locate the support brackets and screw them in. After that I will be back to epoxy and putting on the inside glass. It is like a jugsaw puzzel trying to plan the first coat of epoxy, the fillet and the glass together in the ends. I am trying to dry fit everything and make it so it goes together smoothly.
I found a way for the kids to help, my son (5) helped the screws with dowl rod, no metal to rust. He helped drill the hole, hammer in the dowel, and saw off the excess. I let him try by himself after starting the dowel and it worked, until he hit one side ways. Then I held the dowel while he hit it with a hard plastic mallet (not a toy one). He really liked the sawing, I held the saw at the bottom of the handle and the blade while he move the saw. It was fun to watch him. I am planning to put dowels along the gunwales every 6" so they have plenty to put in. I will get the wife to take photos next time.
I have to locate the support brackets and screw them in. After that I will be back to epoxy and putting on the inside glass. It is like a jugsaw puzzel trying to plan the first coat of epoxy, the fillet and the glass together in the ends. I am trying to dry fit everything and make it so it goes together smoothly.
I found a way for the kids to help,
my son (5) helped the screws with dowl rod, no metal to rust. He helped drill the hole, hammer in the dowel, and saw off the excess. I let him try by himself after starting the dowel and it worked, until he hit one side ways. Then I held the dowel while he hit it with a hard plastic mallet (not a toy one). He really liked the sawing, I held the saw at the bottom of the handle and the blade while he move the saw. It was fun to watch him. I am planning to put dowels along the gunwales every 6" so they have plenty to put in. I will get the wife to take photos next time.MDS, Might be close to time to get some small hand tools for your Son? A simple hand saw, a hand drill?
Making progress, the compartments have taken longer than I thought to build. I would be done by now if it wasn't for them. I taped sides and will tape the bottom.
Inside the compartment are supports and I filleted the bottom and corners.
Working on the top coats at the bow and stern so I can close them up. Here is the support structure to support the deck. The above picture show the slot for biscuits to hold the cross beam flush. To top fits like a glove but that was a dry fit. I plan to keep everything a little loose for the deck attachement and do it all in one shot. The screw will be removed afther the epoxy cures. I plan to have zero metal in the boat. Every hole is being plugged with a dowel. Working to finish the compartment assembly this weekend. Still planning to have it on the water before the end of Oct.
Inside the compartment are supports and I filleted the bottom and corners.
Working on the top coats at the bow and stern so I can close them up. Here is the support structure to support the deck. The above picture show the slot for biscuits to hold the cross beam flush. To top fits like a glove but that was a dry fit. I plan to keep everything a little loose for the deck attachement and do it all in one shot. The screw will be removed afther the epoxy cures. I plan to have zero metal in the boat. Every hole is being plugged with a dowel. Working to finish the compartment assembly this weekend. Still planning to have it on the water before the end of Oct.
My kids are only 5 and 6, so I am planning on years of use with them in it. They are also worth making sure it is strong. I thought about leaving the corners unglassed but the little effort seemed worth it. I would rather over build it than under build it. I already had the tape and it wasn't much epoxy. I remember sailing a small boat, a 14' ghost, with my friend in San Diego. It had a plug cover at the bulkhead and whenevery we flipped it, we kicked the cover out. If we turn over, a kick shouldn't destroy the compartment.
The deck/bulkheads are now complete. I did some filing and sanding to fix a slight shift in the bulkhead and made everything flush. I checked the all four contoured cross members with a contour gauge and they are with in 1/16, so I am happy. The bow top is really tight with not gaps, while the stern has a few shims, about 1/16" total to fill in the gap. With some epoxy and paint it will be invisible, but I will know. I am still deciding on a center piece on top of the cover. I can always put it on later so I am not worrying about it now. Overall, I am happy with the results so far.
I cleaned up inside and turned the boat over. Finished filling all the screw holes with dowels using waterproof Titebond III. (to bad the kids were already in bed and couldn't help. Started to contour the edges for glassing the bottom. I am using files and sandpaper to better control the edge. I am thinking about how to make a radius tool to hole a consistent shape. Planning to glass next weekend, so I will need to have the glass resting on the boat by Wed.
I did some filing and sanding to fix a slight shift in the bulkhead and made everything flush. I checked the all four contoured cross members with a contour gauge and they are with in 1/16, so I am happy. The bow top is really tight with not gaps, while the stern has a few shims, about 1/16" total to fill in the gap. With some epoxy and paint it will be invisible, but I will know. I am still deciding on a center piece on top of the cover. I can always put it on later so I am not worrying about it now. Overall, I am happy with the results so far.I cleaned up inside and turned the boat over. Finished filling all the screw holes with dowels using waterproof Titebond III. (to bad the kids were already in bed and couldn't help. Started to contour the edges for glassing the bottom. I am using files and sandpaper to better control the edge. I am thinking about how to make a radius tool to hole a consistent shape. Planning to glass next weekend, so I will need to have the glass resting on the boat by Wed.
Glassed the bottom on Sat. and learned several things. I wouldn't glass with one piece again. I understand why the three piece method that preacher is using now. I had to make a relief cut at one end to take up the curve in the cloth. I only purchased medium epoxy, slow would have been much better. When I move the glass around it sent epoxy down the side then I had to hurry and get that area smooth before the epoxy started to gel. The next boat will be much better, if I can remember all the mistakes from this one. There is a line on the boat for the graphite, it seemed easier to put it there before glassing and it was easy to tape.
Here is the first coat of graphite/epoxy/aerosil. I found an article were the builder put graphite on a strip canoe and gave the results after 1 and 3 years of use. Since I found very little on the ratio to mix it and he had good results, so I went with his methods. (http://tomangelakis.tripod.com/graphite_bottom.htm) It was tricky to try and do the correct ratios but it should be close. I went for 4" of cover on the sides and bow/stern. The more protection the better. You can see them but at least a hand full of bugs decided to entomb themselves in the first coat. I should have the bottom do this week.
Here is the first coat of graphite/epoxy/aerosil. I found an article were the builder put graphite on a strip canoe and gave the results after 1 and 3 years of use. Since I found very little on the ratio to mix it and he had good results, so I went with his methods. (http://tomangelakis.tripod.com/graphite_bottom.htm) It was tricky to try and do the correct ratios but it should be close. I went for 4" of cover on the sides and bow/stern. The more protection the better. You can see them but at least a hand full of bugs decided to entomb themselves in the first coat. I should have the bottom do this week.
MDS, Piper San and I will be over this weekend to mess up that neat shop. (I'm almost ashamed of you!)