Newbie on this site

[JAYCEESFOLLY]

Greetings all:

I ran across this forum a couple of weeks ago and have decided to build an UJ Piro kit. I ordered the kit and got as far as cutting the plywood and then had to go to work for a week.

First, a little about myself, I am a fisherman for many years and have always had a boat (on a trailer). 12 years ago I moved to the beach on Lake Ontario (upstate New York). I have a home on the water but the beach is so shallow that I can't put in a dock that could be used for a boat. The dock would have to extend out more than 200 ft. and the city won't let me do that. (Obstructs the view of the neighbors). About 4 years ago I sold my boat because it got to be a pain to drag it everywhere for a days fishing and then have to pay to put in the water. Around here it is $10-$15 to use a public launch. So, I have been looking for a kit to build for a small canoe I can carry down to the beach. The UJ Kit seems just what I need. We have a lot of ponds and small bays off the lake that would be ideal for this type of piro. We have some of the best bass and salmon fishing in the country here.

I started my working career as an engineer for Crosman Airguns, a name some of you may have heard of. I was a Senior Design Engineer there for 20 years and then left in 1985 to purchase a small manufacturing business with another guy. We manufactured compressed air dryers and filters for the industrial marketplace. In 1996 my partner died and I sold the business and decided to just do consulting work for a few years. In 2000 I got married and my wife told me I had to find a job that paid a consistent salary. As a consultant, some years were good and some I starved, but that's the way the manufacturing world works. When the economy was good then I had plenty of work and when the economy went bad the contract workers got the ax first. In 2000 I went to work for a friend of mine driving a truck around the East Coast. I like this job because I don't have to work if I don't feel like it. And when I do work I am only gone overnight or at the worst three days. I usually only work three or four days a week when I do work. I am getting near retirement age and I thought that having a small boat would allow me to throw it on the roof of the car and explore the small ponds and bays that I can't get to with a regular 18 or 20 footer.
I have a few questions about building this piro and hope someone can give me some insight into the answers.

1. I am going to add an inside chine to the bottom of the ribs, for added strength. I am not sure what size to make the rib. I thought 3/4 x 3/4 would be OK. I plan on adding a fourth rib to the piro and a removable cedar strip floor to stand on. I weigh 230 lbs and I am concerned about weight concentration on a 3/16 ply floor. The plywood actually is 5.2 MM luan but that is still only .202" and I am not sure if it will be safe to stand on.

2. I am not going to glass the entire bottom, only use tape on the inside and outside seams and chine. I am going to put three coats of resin on the inside and outside. I am also going to put a sealed bulkhead in the bow and stern for flotation. I will be using this piro in the lake once in a while (mainly to get to some of the bays) and if a rainstorm comes along, the lake can get pretty rough, so I want the extra security of the flotation.

3. I am planning on using a radius cutter in my router to trim the bottom after it has been glued on and wonder what size radius cutter to use. I plan on trimming after putting the epoxy fillet on the inside, so the bottom is secure. Has anyone used a router? Did it work OK for trimming with a ball bearing type radius cutter?

I'm sure I will have more questions as I go along and am looking forward to your comments.

Thanks

JC

PS My given name is Jim but go by my initials. And I like grits!

 

[Wimperdink]

This is just me and many will say its wrong and others will agree with the method, but I had the same concerns as you and I built using the same method you described for my first piro.

I couldnt get chines installed as the wood kept snapping and it was to tough... My last build seems to be the ticket. I used 3/8" ply for the bottom and 1/4" for the sides. I have no ribs in mine whatsoever and it is a solid lil piro. When its in the water, the floor feels as solid as can be.

I used a trim router with that ball bearing bit to trim off the excess on the bottom but still had to go around with the belt sander to finish the edges. It seemed to work well. You wont get a finished edge with the router due to the angle of the sides changes from end to middle vs. the flat bottom.

My first piro was also done with just fiberglass tape on the inside and outside seams and I ended up with a serious problem after leaving it upside down in the sunlight for a few months. The bottom checked and ended up leaking right through the bottom. I had put layers of resin on to seal the wood but it didnt help the checking. Part of that problem might have been the fact I used polyester resin with no glass. My latest build I glassed the bottom outside but not the inside and its lasted me 6 months with no problems. This was also with polyester resin. I'm cheap. :lol:

Others will have better advice... I'm a novice and just sharing my experiance. Best advice I have is to have fun with it and you made a good choice in building your own.

 

[oldsparkey]

JC.

Let me Welcome you to this nut house and you have made a fatal mistake.... Mentioning that you worked for Crosman Air Rifles... You will be bombarded with questions about them from the folks on here. So get ready to answer questions.

As far as building the pirogue , that is all fun , sometimes cussing and kicking the sawhorses but it is all in fun.

We have a lot of folks on here that have done what you are wanting to do and I am sure they will step in and offer a lot of help or suggestions and even sometimes get off the subject at hand.
Now as far as the gritz , sorry but you opened that door or should I say made that meal. :lol: :lol: :lol:

All I can say is when you get the pirogue built , it will require about 2 inches or 3 inches of water to float it with you in it , depending on how heavy you make it.

If you have any questions , ask , if you want to just have some fun then do that also.

Personally , I would glass the whole boat to protect the wood , the epoxy saturation will do the same but it is like making a sandwich ( see here I go with the food ) the wood is the filler and the glass is what keeps it together and protects it from the weather.

With the real sandwich ...If you use jelly then that is your lap it will fall in.

Chuck.

 

[oldsparkey]

I have only told a few folks about this but the lonely pirogue has a lot of uses.

When we had all the Hurricanes a few years ago I took one of mine and put it in the back yard, out of my workshop where they are keep. I like to keep the wood boats under cover to protect them.

Filled it with water so it would not blow away and then had the water for bathing , washing dishes and flushing the toilet , the Hurricane keep it full of water for us. Take a bucket full out and get two buckets in place of it from the hurricane.

By being epoxy saturated and fully glassed the water did nothing to it ( no damage) and I am still paddling it.

Chuck.

 

[Tom @ Buzzard Bluff]

Thank GOD!

Welcome JC and Thank GOD you've arrived! I've been posing as the airgun 'expert' and I'm dancing on the head of a pin to fake it! You're in DEEP Ca-Ca from henceforth with the airgun questions. :wink:
If you were with Crosman 20 years prior to 1985 you may have some familiarity with the 'steel & wood' era before the advent of the stampings and die-cast phase began so I may prove to be your greatest fan for answering questions.
That out of the way please allow me to make a suggestion or two. Every mistake that can be made building boats has been made at one time or the other by someone on this board! Learn from THEIR mistakes rather than making your own. You will find eager advice here, freely given. Pay particular attention to Chuck---he's 'been there, done that' waaaaay more than most.
As far as fiberglassing we know that one thing works and works well. All else remains moot. If you will consider that the wood component of your boat serves in great part to act as a seperater of the fiberglas layers in order to yield modulus of section then you'll be ahead of the game. Please be fully aware that doesn't mean skimping on the quality of the wood! (before Jack jumps in with both size 11s!) Seal the wood, glass both sides, finish the bottom at a minimum with some graphite added to the final coats of resin and you'll have the same sort of bugstains on your teeth as a happy motorcyclist. :lol:
And get to fishing! Tom

 

[FlaMike]

I just lost a rather long post due to some heavy thunder storms. So I’ll try again, but this time I’ll compose it in Word so it will “auto-save,â€Â

 

[JAYCEESFOLLY]

Thanks for the quick reply gentlemen!

Tom: It has been many years since I worked @ Crosman and don't consider myself an expert on that stuff anymore. But you are right, I am from the steel and wood era. I actually worked on the Model 760 when we converted the stock and forearm from wood to plastic. I designed the Model 73, 454,Skanakar target pistol and many others. This is best left for another forum page. More on this later, when I have more time.

FlaMike and Wimper: Thanks for the quick reply. I have already read most of the replies in this forum and have been following Mike's commentary. I am concerned about weight, because I will cartop this thing, so I'm not sure that I want to add a 5th rib. I have already made the 4th rib and will use it to increase the width of the floor. I have already cut the side panels to the 10" as recommended in the plans, so that will limit my width on the bottom, because I don't want to buy another sheet of plywood. It's not the money, It's just a pain to buy one sheet.

I appreciate the info on the router bit and will try that when I get to that point. I have all the woodworking tools I need, compliments of my father-in-law. He is not able to use the tools, so he gave me all of his tools. I have two table saws(different sizes), radial saw, large belt sanders(table top type) plus all the power hand tools you can imagine.

I think it will take me about two months to complete because of my work schedule and other outside interests. I like to ride my motorcycles when the weather is nice and this is the season for that. We also entertain a lot because of our beach. We always have people here (mainly relatives w/children!) on the weekends.

If I knew how to upload a photo on this forum, I could show you where I plan on using the piro. The lake is very shallow in this area.


More later, guys.

JC

 

[cctyer]

Welcome aboard JC, If you look on the gallery page you will see a post at the top on how to post pictures. We love to see them. Some of us can't operate without them. I'll leave names out to protect them. :wink:
Can't wait to see your build and hear your comments and questions.
Sounds like you live in a beautiful place.

Chad

 

[Kayak Jack]

JC, First, let me welcome you aboard the Southern Paddler forum. Building and paddling your own boat can be the second and third most fun things in the world to do.

Please continue sharing with us some of your experiences, thoughts, questions, answers, and stories. All stories, of course, must be verifiably true and accurate. Over two hundred years ago, Cap'n Meriwether taught me to be honest and tell the truth, and I have ever since. So should you.

Whilst I've never built a pirogue, I have built four kayaks and a canoe. I'll offer some suggestions for your digestion process.

Rather than heavy wood, get your strength from thinner wood with epoxified fiber glass cloth inside and out. This will give you a lighter weight final product with likely more strength. I always use 1/8" plywood. If you used that on a bottom with glass inside and out, it would be strong.

If the large, flat expanse oil canned as you step around, a couple of strips, say 2" X a few feet long, would add stiffness to it. These could be parallel to the centerline of the boat, out a few inches from center. These could be omitted at build time, and only added if you feel it is necessary later on.

As Tom alluded to, I prefer the high quality Okoume mahogany plywood. It is of consistent quality throughout without voids and fills to warp or break under stress. Costs a bit more to buy, but then every time I use it I'm pleased. Or, a guy can buy cheap stuff and feel pleased only once, but disappointed every time he uses it.

Adding the three coats of graphite-enriched epoxy to the bottom will provide a tough - and slippery - boat bottom. The part of the Great Lakes area I paddle in has lots of rocks. (Michigan and lands at the eastern end of Gitche Gumi.) Granite, flint, gneiss, basalt, sandstone, etc all chew up a boat if it isn't protected. I tend to use my boats a bit roughly, so I protect them. Lets them slip through water lilies faster too.

Chew over all that we suggest, then decide for yourself.

And again, welcome aboard