new design in progress

[Kayak Jack]

Joey, a long nose that doesn't ride in the water may well blow around sideways before the aft end. IE: leecock. As Ron said, you really want it balanced so it neither weathercocks or leecocks. He has a good point.

I had a Pygmy Queen Charlotte kayak, first one I ever built. Absolutely the worst hull design in existence. By the time wind was up to 20-25 mph, it would paddle in only one of four directions: straight up or down wind, or crosswind right or left. If you tried to go to any other direction, it would overpower the paddle and go to one of those four headings. I sold it just before I made kindling wood of it.

 

[jdupre']

I agree on the weathercocking issue. The bow shouldn't extend any more than most kayaks, and probably a lot less than some of those stylized sea kayaks. From what I've read and my somewhat limited experience, the stern is more effected in a crosswind. I figure with the paddler's weight more towards the stern and the longer plumb stern, that should cancel out some of that effect.

Keep on coming with the input, fellas. The design continues to evolve.

Joey

 

[Kayak Jack]

I think you're on a right track, Joey. Finding that balance point may be a "by-guess"-and-"by-god!" exercise.

 

[tx river rat]

Joey
Your getting into water that gets murky here,rocker that is unequal can de adjust bye seat placement and weight hauled in the boat. My feeble findings are that a boat will preform if loaded tail heavy and be a complete dog nose heavy. You can sit father back in an swede form boat than you can in a symmetrical boat because of water displacement .
The one thing to remember here is that there are very few hard fast theorys in boat building,they are set in concrete till you add in another varible and that changes the whole concept.
Jack you need to lighten up on the north south deal.The best way to help a situiation like that is to kid and cut up about it.
Thats what I do,now if I was serious about it ,I dont think anyone would think I was joking.
Heck on the Brazos trip you came back and I didnt even bring my banjo.
Ron

 

[tx river rat]

JD
The deepest part of the v is an inch and a quarter on the cuda
Ron

 

[jdupre']

Thanks, Ron.

I figure I'll put the boat in the water and check for the cockpit location before I build the decks.

Joey

 

[Kayak Jack]

Joey, maybe you could have a "movable" cockpit by removing, say, a 4" strip from either in front of or behind the cockpit, and replace it oppositely. That would slide your weight along incrementally for test purposes. May I suggest that, when you are out for a test paddle, you do not go alone? Have a buddy along with you in another boat just in case.

Another solution is to work with Matt. But, I don't think that's what you have in mind; you wanna play and tinker.

"Only difference between men and boys, is the size of the girls and price of the toys." (Or, is that price of the girls and size of the toys?)

 

[jdupre']

Jack, I checked out the Queen Charlotte from Pygmy boats. I can see how the wind would play havoc with that design. Almost more out of the water than in. Kinda swoopy shape, though.

Looking at other swede form kayaks, the cockpit does appear to be too far back. Honestly, I just plopped a piece of ply on there and said " Close enough. I can always cut it smaller. Hard to cut it longer, though."

Playing and tinkering with the design is more than half the fun.

Joey

 

[islandpiper]

Neat thing about 1/4 scale: when you build the real boat it will take eight times longer and cost thirty two times as much.

I agree with all responses regarding weather cocking. Having spent long hours in loaded canoes on open water I can attest to the fact that "it don't take much" drag in the bow to kick it over and make you work harder.

Otherwise, it looks like an exciting boat. You'll be packing really light to get 2-3 nights of camping with it though. And, retrieving your gear is a pin in the butt at times. You'll be surprised at what you CAN'T carry in a yak.

piper

 

[jdupre']

Neat thing about 1/4 scale: when you build the real boat it will take eight times longer and cost thirty two times as much.
piper

Hey, that ain't bad. An hour and a half times 8 for the real build-- not bad. Cost of a few staples times 32 - no problem.

"Otherwise, it looks like an exciting boat. You'll be packing really light to get 2-3 nights of camping with it though. And, retrieving your gear is a pin in the butt at times. You'll be surprised at what you CAN'T carry in a yak." Piper

No Dutch ovens then, huh? I find my main bulky items are the blue pad for the hammock, sleeping bag and bulky winter clothes. Water for 3 days would be a problem. I've gotten the kitchen and food items pared down to a pretty small package. Once I get her built, I guess I'll have to do several days of in-field research to iron out the details. Sigh.........life is tough.

Joey

 

[tx river rat]

My T-V is 15 bye 29 I can stay out a week easily and 2 weeks if I want to.
Fresh food for a week of that.
Ron

 

[oldsparkey]

The Freedom that I made ( From JEM Watercraft it is 15.4 feet by 28 inches and was the prototype for the Freedom series), it took all of my gear. The only thing holding a person back is there amount of food and water for a trip. I had all of what is in the picture in there with some room left over. It is how you pack it and what you take but I had everything I needed including the food and water and something to cook it with , No Dutch Oven. :lol:
I did have food left over , a good amount since it is something I do not want to run short on .... Even the adult beverage for the evening around the campfire. :wink:

In 07 I paddled the Ocklawaha River with the guys and used the Freedom. It's all in how you pack the boat.

 

[jdupre']

I agree , it's all in the packing. I'm gradually paring down what I take so room shouldn't be a problem.

Chuck, how do those bulkead hatches work in the Freedom. Pain in the arse or workable? I'd kinda like to keep my decks intact if possible.

Joey

 

[islandpiper]

jdupre said: I've gotten the kitchen and food items pared down to a pretty small package

Piper said: Ya, sure. I've got the dutch oven, and the cornish hens, and the cornbread stuffing and the frozen wings and breading mix and pancake mix and syrup and butter and Stereo and speakers, and the 12V batteries to run your blender and then all the extra stuff that just makes it more fun, like a half a dozen assorted air rifles and ammo and the disco lights.

 

[jdupre']

That should have read:

"I agree , it's all in the packing. I'm gradually paring down what I take so room shouldn't be a problem. I just have to convince piper to come with me every time." :mrgreen:


Joey

 

[Kayak Jack]

Joey, if you build the decks without hatches, I'd suggest (strongly) that you embed a pulley in each item end. Run a circular rope through each one for pulling the first piece of lightweight, streamlined piece of gear into the stem ends. If you add bulkheads and hatches, a poker stick to ram things into the ends also helps. You can use some bulky items as double use, and help out a bit. Your closed cell foam sleeping pad does not have to be a large, 4' X 8' item. First of all, trim it down to only what is needed. (HINT: you do not need any of it below your knees, nor beside your head. So the silhouette can be trimmed drastically.)

Also, the pad can be cut into sections, retaped together w/ 1/2" gap between edges so it will fold over into a compact shape, and double as a paddle float.

If you pack into a single back pack, and nothing more, packing a kayak is easy.

 

[islandpiper]

Here I am, hurrying to catch up with joey. He's a good man to camp with. He'll have the fire going when I get there.

And, I've seen Jack's sleeping pad, trimmed to fit his outline as described above. It comes to a point at the top end. :lol:

piper

 

[jdupre']

Here I am, hurrying to catch up with joey. He's a good man to camp with. He'll have the fire going when I get there.

piper

Piper, did you remember to bring the Margarita mix? Sometimes I have to remind him. :mrgreen:

 

[jdupre']

I was watching the episode of "How it's made" on making the Sea Wolf kayak. The builder glued the shear strips and the side joints at the same time flat on the workbench. It looked like a good idea because it would be easier to clamp a long strip like that flat rather than bending a strip around the inside of the gunwale all slippery with glue. Anyone ever try it?

 

[tx river rat]

JD
I never put the shear strips on untill I have flipped the boat upright and looked her over,I have been known to put a jig saw to a hull if I didnt like the line.
Ron