Millcreek 16.5 Hybrid 50/50 Kayak
- Thread starter swampwood
- Start date
Re: Next Future Build
This is the specs on this boat:
Model: Length: Hull Weight: Beam: Max Payload: Cockpit Size: Paddler Weight: Sail Area:
Mill Creek 16.5 16' 6" 62 lbs. 33 in. 450 lbs. 88" x 21" 230 - 400 lbs. 39 sq ft.
All the reviews say that it is hard to turn, with either a single or double paddlers. Unless you use a rudder (then not sure how easy it will turn then)
My question is: Will more rocker make it turn easier or what can I do to make it turn easy with a single paddler?
This is the specs on this boat:
Model: Length: Hull Weight: Beam: Max Payload: Cockpit Size: Paddler Weight: Sail Area:
Mill Creek 16.5 16' 6" 62 lbs. 33 in. 450 lbs. 88" x 21" 230 - 400 lbs. 39 sq ft.
All the reviews say that it is hard to turn, with either a single or double paddlers. Unless you use a rudder (then not sure how easy it will turn then)
My question is: Will more rocker make it turn easier or what can I do to make it turn easy with a single paddler?
Re: Next Future Build
Increaseing the rocker might improve ease of turning. Looking at the picture I'm wondering if the narrow forward section of the bottom and sides is acting as a keel? Increaseing the rocker may not overcome some other design feature. Define "Hard to turn."? May not be a bad feature depending on the boats purpose. My pirogue is "Hard to turn." compared to my Croc Skiff, but I have dodged every cypress tree that jumped in front of me. :roll: :lol: We need a boat designer to jump in about now.
beekeeper
Increaseing the rocker might improve ease of turning. Looking at the picture I'm wondering if the narrow forward section of the bottom and sides is acting as a keel? Increaseing the rocker may not overcome some other design feature. Define "Hard to turn."? May not be a bad feature depending on the boats purpose. My pirogue is "Hard to turn." compared to my Croc Skiff, but I have dodged every cypress tree that jumped in front of me. :roll: :lol: We need a boat designer to jump in about now.
beekeeper
Re: Next Future Build
Dave Wallace has built one of these boats and i have paddled beside him in my boat.
They appear to be a fine concept and I too thought about building one BEFORE I saw Dave's boat in action. He uses his with a trolling motor AND a leeboard just to make it go where he wants to.
I was paddling my southwind 17.9
http://www.jemwatercraft.com/proddetail ... thWind17-9
My boat with a single blade, was faster, more maneuverable and possibly as stable as the mill creek and in my opinion a superior paddlecraft allround. No dis-respect to Daves fine build but I think the Southwind is a superior option.
Dave Wallace has built one of these boats and i have paddled beside him in my boat.
They appear to be a fine concept and I too thought about building one BEFORE I saw Dave's boat in action. He uses his with a trolling motor AND a leeboard just to make it go where he wants to.
I was paddling my southwind 17.9
http://www.jemwatercraft.com/proddetail ... thWind17-9
My boat with a single blade, was faster, more maneuverable and possibly as stable as the mill creek and in my opinion a superior paddlecraft allround. No dis-respect to Daves fine build but I think the Southwind is a superior option.
Re: Next Future Build
My Mill creek definitely needed a few keel runners to make it go straight , wind blew it all over the place and compared to Micks Southwind it paddled like a barge , but on the other hand in small creeks with out wind it was a beauty , plenty of room , would take a load and was stable , I always thought that it was suited to two smaller paddlers than one large paddler like me , I was at the time 240 lb , I gave it away to a mate and his late teen son , they are much smaller than me and between them would have to be wringing wet to make 300 lb , the mill creek suits them better
Have to say that if I was going to build a craft that size again for a variety of different uses it would be the Southwind rather than the MC
David
My Mill creek definitely needed a few keel runners to make it go straight , wind blew it all over the place and compared to Micks Southwind it paddled like a barge , but on the other hand in small creeks with out wind it was a beauty , plenty of room , would take a load and was stable , I always thought that it was suited to two smaller paddlers than one large paddler like me , I was at the time 240 lb , I gave it away to a mate and his late teen son , they are much smaller than me and between them would have to be wringing wet to make 300 lb , the mill creek suits them better
Have to say that if I was going to build a craft that size again for a variety of different uses it would be the Southwind rather than the MC
David
Re: Next Future Build
I'm :? . Swampwood said it was hard to turn. Mick and David say it won't go straight. How much rocker does it have? How much does the Southwind have? Are there other design differances that would make the southwind handel different?
beekeeper
I'm :? . Swampwood said it was hard to turn. Mick and David say it won't go straight. How much rocker does it have? How much does the Southwind have? Are there other design differances that would make the southwind handel different?
beekeeper
Re: Next Future Build
The trouble is that it's a big wide craft with a flat bottom with no keel runners , with some decent weight in it then the bow of the boat sits deeper in the water and it does go straight but then your paddling a big wide boat with a lot of weight in it , when my wife was in it and sitting far forward then it went straight but didn't turn well , if I was in it by my self then I couldn't get it to go straight , guy I was talking to down south made one and added three shallow keel runners , reckons it goes straight real well with just him in it but it don't turn real well except when he's in a wind and then it's turning the wrong way and hard to correct
I was at the time 240 lb and my wife about half that , we found that my wife sitting as far forward as she could go was the only way to make it ride even , when by my self even shifting my position around so I was sitting forward of the mid point wasn't really a good idea as by the time I was forward enough to make the bow sit deep enough to go straight it just didn't want to turn ,
Mind you that loaded up with camping gear going down stream on a slow moving stream with little wind this craft is a winner , light loaded with a wind quartering in against you it's a pain in the arse , quite waterways with no wind this one is a winner
Set-up with sail and out riggers then again it's a winner
Paddling alone on windy impoundments or estuary's then no
The South wind , is lighter , quicker , more manoeuvrable , I think the one Mick built was the 17'9" model which is about 28" wide , if I was going to build one I think I'd be looking at the 15' model which is 30" wide , I've always like that size from the boats I've built and paddles I find that 15' long is just about right for me and that 30" wide is the best trade off between stability and speed , at least to me at my height and weight , for others of course it may differ
David
The trouble is that it's a big wide craft with a flat bottom with no keel runners , with some decent weight in it then the bow of the boat sits deeper in the water and it does go straight but then your paddling a big wide boat with a lot of weight in it , when my wife was in it and sitting far forward then it went straight but didn't turn well , if I was in it by my self then I couldn't get it to go straight , guy I was talking to down south made one and added three shallow keel runners , reckons it goes straight real well with just him in it but it don't turn real well except when he's in a wind and then it's turning the wrong way and hard to correct
I was at the time 240 lb and my wife about half that , we found that my wife sitting as far forward as she could go was the only way to make it ride even , when by my self even shifting my position around so I was sitting forward of the mid point wasn't really a good idea as by the time I was forward enough to make the bow sit deep enough to go straight it just didn't want to turn ,
Mind you that loaded up with camping gear going down stream on a slow moving stream with little wind this craft is a winner , light loaded with a wind quartering in against you it's a pain in the arse , quite waterways with no wind this one is a winner
Set-up with sail and out riggers then again it's a winner
Paddling alone on windy impoundments or estuary's then no
The South wind , is lighter , quicker , more manoeuvrable , I think the one Mick built was the 17'9" model which is about 28" wide , if I was going to build one I think I'd be looking at the 15' model which is 30" wide , I've always like that size from the boats I've built and paddles I find that 15' long is just about right for me and that 30" wide is the best trade off between stability and speed , at least to me at my height and weight , for others of course it may differ
David
Re: Next Future Build
I agree with Dave re the Southwind 15-30 is probably a better option and will certainly be a superior boat to the Mill Creek.
http://www.jemwatercraft.com/proddetail ... hWind15-30
likewise, Matt's brilliant Cape fear
http://www.jemwatercraft.com/proddetail.php?prod=CF1531
and never forgetting Swampgirl
http://www.jemwatercraft.com/proddetail.php?prod=SG
In my opinion, any of the above three designs offer a better paddlecraft than mill creek.
My southwind 17.9 was custom order for me. She was intended for use as an ocean capable expedition canoe and in this role, she excells. She is also very capable in rivers swamps and even small rapids. I think for most purposes, Southwind 15X30 could well be the most versatile S&G boat in Matts stable.
I agree with Dave re the Southwind 15-30 is probably a better option and will certainly be a superior boat to the Mill Creek.
http://www.jemwatercraft.com/proddetail ... hWind15-30
likewise, Matt's brilliant Cape fear
http://www.jemwatercraft.com/proddetail.php?prod=CF1531
and never forgetting Swampgirl
http://www.jemwatercraft.com/proddetail.php?prod=SG
In my opinion, any of the above three designs offer a better paddlecraft than mill creek.
My southwind 17.9 was custom order for me. She was intended for use as an ocean capable expedition canoe and in this role, she excells. She is also very capable in rivers swamps and even small rapids. I think for most purposes, Southwind 15X30 could well be the most versatile S&G boat in Matts stable.
Re: Next Future Build
Received the Mill Creek Plans today.
After looking at them, I can see why it does not track well and gets wind blown with a single paddler.
It is a flat bottom boat like a piroque. Although the rocker looks pretty good on paper.
I like the design, so I will vee the bottom, instead of leaving it flat and that should make it track well. Just need to figure out how much to Vee it without losing to much stability.
"After looking at the design and reading other reviews from people who use and build this boat. I decided to build it as designed."
Thanks hairymick and Dave for the info
Received the Mill Creek Plans today.
After looking at them, I can see why it does not track well and gets wind blown with a single paddler.
It is a flat bottom boat like a piroque. Although the rocker looks pretty good on paper.
I like the design, so I will vee the bottom, instead of leaving it flat and that should make it track well. Just need to figure out how much to Vee it without losing to much stability.
"After looking at the design and reading other reviews from people who use and build this boat. I decided to build it as designed."
Thanks hairymick and Dave for the info
Re: Next Future Build
Hi all. I'm new to this forum and soon to be building, probably, a mill creek 16.5. I'm around 230 lbs and 6-4, I'm looking for a kayak that has enough load capacity for a trolling motor and crabbing gear with room in the cockpit to move stuff around and stable enough to stand-up and run a trotline. So a sea kayak is not going to work well. After google searching, I ran across this thread about mounting a trolling motor on the MC.
"My Mill creek definitely needed a few keel runners to make it go straight , wind blew it all over the place ..." . I've run a trolling motor and trotline with a 16 ft old town canoe and, yeh, if you are sitting aft and are otherwise heavily loaded in rear, the boat is going to weather cock all over the place especially with that flat bottom. I put my marine battery as far forward as possible and that helped some, but because of the rear seating arrangement, the boat was hard to control in wind even with the little bit of keel the boat has. So, seems with the MC 16.5, you need a more centered seating position and something like a norweigian tiller arrangement with your trolling motor to get the bow into the water. Then, I think, it will steer better. That's what I plan to do, but I'll need to add a motor speed controller since my minn kota is lacking in that dept. What I like about the MC is the relatively wide beam and flat bottom so I can get through the shallows to my crabbing spot. For Dave, what was your motor set-up?
Hi all. I'm new to this forum and soon to be building, probably, a mill creek 16.5. I'm around 230 lbs and 6-4, I'm looking for a kayak that has enough load capacity for a trolling motor and crabbing gear with room in the cockpit to move stuff around and stable enough to stand-up and run a trotline. So a sea kayak is not going to work well. After google searching, I ran across this thread about mounting a trolling motor on the MC.
"My Mill creek definitely needed a few keel runners to make it go straight , wind blew it all over the place ..." . I've run a trolling motor and trotline with a 16 ft old town canoe and, yeh, if you are sitting aft and are otherwise heavily loaded in rear, the boat is going to weather cock all over the place especially with that flat bottom. I put my marine battery as far forward as possible and that helped some, but because of the rear seating arrangement, the boat was hard to control in wind even with the little bit of keel the boat has. So, seems with the MC 16.5, you need a more centered seating position and something like a norweigian tiller arrangement with your trolling motor to get the bow into the water. Then, I think, it will steer better. That's what I plan to do, but I'll need to add a motor speed controller since my minn kota is lacking in that dept. What I like about the MC is the relatively wide beam and flat bottom so I can get through the shallows to my crabbing spot. For Dave, what was your motor set-up?
Re: Next Future Build
dludwig
I made up a mount that clamped on across the back of the cockpit and the motor mounted to the side , it wasn't effective and actually extremely uncomfortable in practice with or with a extended tiller
The only way you could make it work with any degree of comfort would be to mount a remote controlled electric motor like I intend to do eventually with the Ozark float boat
In all seriousness I would recommend the Southwind 15 as a better kayak for some one wanting a MC size boat but from what your saying it seems the Bayou Skiff would be what you really need
David
dludwig
I made up a mount that clamped on across the back of the cockpit and the motor mounted to the side , it wasn't effective and actually extremely uncomfortable in practice with or with a extended tiller
The only way you could make it work with any degree of comfort would be to mount a remote controlled electric motor like I intend to do eventually with the Ozark float boat
In all seriousness I would recommend the Southwind 15 as a better kayak for some one wanting a MC size boat but from what your saying it seems the Bayou Skiff would be what you really need
David
Re: Next Future Build
Planning to order the kit today and stripping the top with Cypess strips.
Will post pics as progress continues along.
It will have a dual rudder system and have the mast hole cutout for the sail rigging.
Thanks for all the advice, but I cannot see myself building the boats recommended, that is why there are so many choices and shapes to chose from. Personal preferences? :?:
Planning to order the kit today and stripping the top with Cypess strips.
Will post pics as progress continues along.
It will have a dual rudder system and have the mast hole cutout for the sail rigging.
Thanks for all the advice, but I cannot see myself building the boats recommended, that is why there are so many choices and shapes to chose from. Personal preferences? :?:
Re: Next Future Build
The kit will finally be here on the 13th.
The bottom will be stitch & glue marine ply and painted white. It also will be painted white inside, except for the floor which will be painted with a diferent color and non-slip finish.
The top deck will be stripped with cypress strips and varnished.
It will have a double rudder.
Can't wait to get started :!: :!: :!:
The kit will finally be here on the 13th.
The bottom will be stitch & glue marine ply and painted white. It also will be painted white inside, except for the floor which will be painted with a diferent color and non-slip finish.
The top deck will be stripped with cypress strips and varnished.
It will have a double rudder.
Can't wait to get started :!: :!: :!:
Re: Next Future Build
Jack,
The rudder is a larger rudder for Double and sailing kayaks.
No, there want be 2 rudders. Although it might need them.
Jack,
The rudder is a larger rudder for Double and sailing kayaks.
No, there want be 2 rudders. Although it might need them.
Re: Next Future Build
OK, a large rudder, of brand name "Double". I thought perhaps of two rudders, side by side. Thanks.
OK, a large rudder, of brand name "Double". I thought perhaps of two rudders, side by side. Thanks.
Re: Next Future Build
Would love to see this kayak on Lake Michigan, Superior or boundry waters.
I have spent alot of summers camping on Lake Superior and even spent a week at a cabin in the boundry water area (Ely). Beautiful :mrgreen:
The kayak is actually a tandem or double. The brand name of the rudder is a Feathercraft Double Rudder.Kayak Jack said:
Would love to see this kayak on Lake Michigan, Superior or boundry waters.
I have spent alot of summers camping on Lake Superior and even spent a week at a cabin in the boundry water area (Ely). Beautiful
:mrgreen:Re: Next Future Build
When you were camping along Gitche Gumi, did you take a canoe or kayak out on her? Where were you camping? Did you ever get into Lake Superior Provincial Park around Wawa, Old Woman Bay, or Lake Mijinemungshing?
When you were camping along Gitche Gumi, did you take a canoe or kayak out on her? Where were you camping? Did you ever get into Lake Superior Provincial Park around Wawa, Old Woman Bay, or Lake Mijinemungshing?
Re: Next Future Build
My grandparents lived in Minneapolis when I was a kid. We use to stay in a cabin at a state park on the north shore. I know we toured the places, but I was to young to remember them. I do remember swimming in the lake (it was cold in June). Hope to get back up that way again one day.
I did stay a night on the lake in Duluth on the way to Ely. Lake superior was fierce. You would have gotten soaking wet from the spray.
I also want to see the northern part of Michigan.
My grandparents lived in Minneapolis when I was a kid. We use to stay in a cabin at a state park on the north shore. I know we toured the places, but I was to young to remember them. I do remember swimming in the lake (it was cold in June). Hope to get back up that way again one day.
I did stay a night on the lake in Duluth on the way to Ely. Lake superior was fierce. You would have gotten soaking wet from the spray.
I also want to see the northern part of Michigan.
Re: Next Future Build (Millcreek 16.5 50/50 Kayak)
Started epoxying the scarfed panels together today.
Tommorow I will start Stiching and gluing the panels together on the bottom half of the hull.
I will start taking pics then.
Started epoxying the scarfed panels together today.
Tommorow I will start Stiching and gluing the panels together on the bottom half of the hull.
I will start taking pics then.