Kayak paddle shape

[jdupre']

I just looked at the video of Derek Hutchinson again, the English kayak guru. He said he uses a willow leaf shaped paddle blade , not an asymetrical spoon- shaped blade. So said, the asymetrical shape was developed for racing and has since been adopted as "thee" type of blade to have. Any of you use something different (and maybe better) than the standard asym. spoon blade paddle?

Joey

 

[Kayak Jack]

The asymmetrical paddle is so shaped so the torque on the paddle shaft is equalized. A symmetrically shaped blade will have unequal areas on each side of the shaft in the water during strokes, causing the shaft to twist in our hands, leading to paddle flutter. Asymmetrical shapes address the problem quite well. Most are both spoon and cup shaped. One term refers to a "cupping" bend longitudinally in the blade, the other to "cupping" crossways the blade. together, they help the blade hold water and provide a stronger anchor point for the paddle. As you stroke, you tend to pivot around that point.

Wing paddles are for racing; asymmetrical blades are for almost everything else. Use either an asymmetrically shaped blade, or a Greenland style paddle. You will get more thrust with an asymmetrical, spoon/cup shaped blade.

Advocates of a long, thin blade (Greenland style) are fond of saying that the reduced thrust is easier on their shoulders. Well, just don't pull as hard on a regular blade if you want less strain. If you want more thrust, you can have it. A long thin blade will not deliver as much thrust.

 

[jdupre']

I can see the cup shape getting a better purchase on the water, but it seems like a symmetrical shape would be more stable than an asymmetrical one. It probably has something to do with the angle the blade is presented to the water. It is a more acute angle than the way one uses a canoe paddle.

While writing this post, I checked the angled cut on the end of my kayak paddle. In use it would be almost parallel to the water at the beginning of the power stroke. That is probably the reasoning for the shape-- the entire leading edge of the blade hits the water at the same time. Interesting.

 

[Kayak Jack]

Right, Joey, it is because of the angle of the shaft to the water. If a paddle enters with the shaft upright, at a 90 degree angle to the water, then symmetrical is what you want. That will present the same square inches of area to force of the water on both sides of the shaft. Therefore, torque on the shaft will be equal, or neutral. A paddler will not experience a twisting of the shaft in his hands.

When you have the shaft at another angle, say 30 degrees, to get equal torque (actually, neutral torque) you need to have an asymmetrical blade. The top part of the blade is not as well covered with water, so it needs to be full sized. The bottom portion of the blade is completely submerged and needs less area, otherwise it will induce torque into the shaft.

When this happens, the paddle will start to twist in your hands, it takes about 3/4 of a second for a human to react, then he often overcorrects. This will be paddle flutter, where the water twists in a direction, and a fraction of a second later you twist in the other. Not a good way to paddle.

If you are serious about a kayak style paddle, here is my experience. A carbon fiber paddle will be the lightest, and most enjoyable to use. Wood is nice, but heavier. If you paddle where you can switch back and forth, you would see and feel the difference immediately. I have long, wooden paddles, short Greenland style paddle, had a very nice carbon fiber paddle.

I now have a Werner Kalliste 220 cm paddle. It is a half pound lighter than the previous paddle. It will cost as much as your boat, and you will grin every time you use it. I gawwr-owntee. (or, something like that)

 

[Lee Schneidermann]

Guess my wooden "snow-shovel" design is pretty crude then?

 

[Kayak Jack]

Paddle design is subtle, kinda like the design of a custom made chair. The first hour or two, the differences aren't all that evident. After 8-10 hours, the differences get REAL evident.

 

[Lee Schneidermann]

Jack,
If you're paddling for 8 to 10 hours at a crack, I may have to re-think our paddle together!!

 

[Kayak Jack]

I usually paddle for 3-4 hours, with the current, during mornings. Nap, and then paddle a couple hours in the afternoon. I used to roam across a large lake in Canada, checking islands and swamps, watching loons and herons, regardless of wind direction or velocity. That got draining after while. An excellent paddle soon becomes your best friend, while a mediocre paddle doesn't.

 

[dawallace45]

Well, just don't pull as hard on a regular blade if you want less strain.

Jack

Got to disagree with that , while it seems fine in theory it just doesn't work for me in practice .
My shoulder is stuffed , it makes crunching , grinding noises when I move it , I can't use a normal paddle for more than a few hundred metres but with a paddle with a smaller blade or a Greenland style paddle I can keep going for miles and miles ,


I was talking to a manager of a major outdoors chain here in Australia , we were talking about paddling and he mentioned that most of the people buying kayaks these days were in their mid 30's to early 60's but the great majority of them gave it up soon after their first paddle , I told him that from all the people I've talked to at the waters edge the biggest problems seem to be with seating and paddles , new paddlers tend to buy the biggest paddles they can find and in truth there isn't much to choose from , all the ones on the market here seem to be big bladed mongrel things , my small bladed paddle from my inflatable weighs 1.6 lb and is a pleasure to use , my Greenland paddle weighs 2.6 lb and is also great to use , in contrast I picked up a paddle in a shop last week that weighed in at 8 lb , bloody instrument of torture ,

Seats and back-bands , good kayak seats are pretty much unknown here in Australia , not one importer brings in a decent shaped padded kayak seat , if you want one you need to order it from the USA , there seems to be one importer bringing in decent back-bands , they charge $90 for them , looks exactly like the one's Black Dog sells for $29.95 , but a decent seat like Black Dog Foam Kayak seat just doesn't exist here and even the importers don't know of them , of course here we also have that macho thing where people would rather suffer through the pain of using a crap paddle or sub-standard seat and not complain unless they are thought to be weak , mostly these people just will not use their kayak again which to me is pointless

To me it's better to whine , bitch , complain and threaten until some thing is done

I've been trying to educate the people in our local BCF store about what products are out there for some time and I actually heard one of their sales staff giving some good advice to a customer the other day , of course it was the same advice I'd given him three months ago ,



David

 

[Kayak Jack]

Dave, sorry to hear about your shoulder troubles. I agree that we try to pull as hard as seems feasible, and a bigger blade will strain us more. As I got older, I also got lazier. I think I'm better at that than you are. I can ease off on the pull, set a speed, and hold it fairly well. All of that goes by the wayside, though, if I'm paddling into a stiff head wind or current. Then, I pull as hard as I can feel I will be able to sustain, and rest every few minutes.

Greenland style paddles are popular here, and a lot of paddlers really like them.

 

[gbinga]

Seems to me that if you want less muscle / joint strain, you go to a lower gear and pedal faster. At least that's the way you do it when cycling. Move to a lower gear, increase the RPM, easier on the knees. You don't stay in high gear and just not push as hard... it won't work.

Now of course paddling a 'yak is not pedaling a bike, but I wonder if the analogy is valid? Smaller paddle = lower gear. Less thrust per stroke, so you make more strokes to get the work done, but have less joint strain due to the smaller paddle.

Am I making any kind of sense, or should I just hush and have another rum on the rocks?

George

 

[dawallace45]

George

That is exactly the way it works for me , I have a paddling rhythm that is easy for me with the smaller bladed paddle , going slower seems to cause more strain and throw me out

David