How long does it take a boat to rot?

[beekeeper]

islandpiper wrote in his "How Much Did Your UJ Cost?" post:
" i think that glass outside and glass inside too will be the only way the boat will survive. I will raise the cost and weight, but increase the usable lifespan, too "

What is the usable lifespan of a glassed and epoxied wooden boat? What is it for one that's only painted or varnished? No guessing. How long did your boat last? Was it the finish that failed or improper care or a glue/sealer problem? seedtick has his dads 50+ yr. old paint only boat and it floated me. I had a fiberglass bass boat that the transom rotted at about 10yrs. I'm not asking which method is best, only how long each style might last.

beekeeper

 

[jdupre']

Beekeeper, my guess would be anywhere from 2 to 50 years. :mrgreen: Really, it's about upkeep. An all wood boat, kept inside a garage, used several times a year and well maintained could last 10- 15 years even if made of lesser quality materials. Cheap ply with a very minimal paint job left outside might make 2 years. There's millions of wood structures in the world that are 300 years old and older. Maintenance is the key and it's arguably easier with good epoxy and glass.

 

[JEM]

How you take care of it is the key.

A lot of cheap fiberglass boats have been made with wooden core transoms. Because of poor design or poor materials or poor craftsmanship or abuse (or any combination) the glass structure gets a tiny leak, the wood gets wet and never gets a chance to dry, it rots. The fiberglass boat repair guys I know tell me the majority of the time it's either the owner putting on an outboard that is oversized for the intended design or the polyester resin just didn't hold up.

If a boat is painted and glued only, stays sealed, and is used as it was intended, it will last many, many years.

 

[beekeeper]

jdupre' and JEM
We are all more or less on the same page. Maintenance and reasonable use are important to boat life.
Jem wrote "A lot of cheap fiberglass boats have been made with wooden core transoms." A lot of the expensive ones are too. The repairman I spoke with said he has seen problems with all brands. If the boat has wood encased in fiberglass it will fail. The problem is when the moisture gets into the wood it can't dry because it is encased. Most he sees are around 10 Yrs. old. No stones, please! I'm not saying encasing our homemade boats in fiberglass is wrong.

Has anyone had a boat fail prematurely? Why? Has anybody broke one? What happened?

beekeeper

 

[JEM]

If the boat has wood encased in fiberglass it will fail.

Too broad of a statement and missing so much information one can't even begin to try to agree or disagree with it.

 

[oldsparkey]

You are asking a question that is paramount to which is the best boat , there is no specific answer.

A boat that is keep inside when not being used has a longer life expectancy then one that sits outside in the weather all the time. Even that is not true , I had a row boat ( as a kid) that was outside all the time and it lasted as long as I had it and would assume the guy who has it today is still using it. If he has taken care of it. Taken out of the lake , scraped and repainted every year.
All wood and painted but the wood was cypress.
There is a friend of mine who has one like the one I had and it has to be 40 years old , if not older and is in as good shape as when he got it new.

They are finding dugouts the Indians used before the white man was in Florida and some of them are in good shape , others are not but you can tell what they were.

I helped to replace a 6 year old floor in a modern aluminum Bass Boat , it was some cheep wood and carpeted , replace with marine ply and then carpeted. I had a Orlando Clipper , Aluminum with wood to beef up the transom , it was built in 1955 and we replaced the wood in 72 since it was getting some soft spots but still in usable shape.

The ones we make , with proper care should out last us , which ain't saying much. :lol: :lol: :lol: Especially when you think about the one they found in Egypt that was King Tut's barge , the dug it up and reassembled it , learning how they built them back in those days. He died in 1325 BC and they found the boat in 1922 AD

It was not even fiber glassed an epoxied , if it would of been , I don't even want to think about that. :wink:

Chuck.

 

[beekeeper]

JEM
As usual I probably said it wrong. Should have said " can fail", "may fail", have failed", or something else. I assume if the best commercial boats made this way have failed, a homemade one can. My interest is in the context of "Has anybody built a boat that failed (builder's definition accepted) and why?". Lots of things said about the need to fiber glass vs paint only, but little references to actual failures. I have one of each. If either one fails I will post it. My experience is little so I hope to learn from others.

beekeeper

 

[JEM]

I had a canoe fail in that it got bare wood exposed and it sat in the back corner of my yard with no covering. Wood rotted out after a couple years and cracked open the hull. Didn't break my heart because that thing was a piece of crap! :lol:

 

[beekeeper]

Thank you JEM for your example. Was it finished with paint,varnish, or how? I assume it was not glassed or epoxied. What caused the bare wood to be exposed?

beekeeper

 

[JEM]

it was glassed using epoxy. The lower bow stem took some HARD abuse and the glass got worn through and expose the bare wood. We tried to crack the hull on purpose but it wouldn't split. Just got worn from smashing into the big rocks. I knew that boat was destined to get cut up and thrown into the trash so I never bothered to repair it.

 

[beekeeper]

oldsparkey
Sorry I overlooked your Sept. 3 reply. Maintenance seems to be the common them, no matter how it's built.
Interesting info about King Tut's barge. You wonder about what if it had been epoxied. I'm thinking a couple coats of paint? Keith and seedtick probably would say they should have used sinker cypress. :wink: I guess some people don't appreciate hand crafted boats enough to keep them up.

Thanks
beekeeper

 

[Kayak Jack]

This question is about like asking, "How long does it take a man to get old?" In both cases, hull maintenance is crucial.

 

[gbinga]

I liked Jack's reply. :lol:

Just my opinion;

I worry about a pinhole in the glass / epoxy letting tiny bits of water into the wood core where it will take forever to dry out and thus lead to rot. Has more to do with theory than experience, though. I've heard of this happening in motorboats, and the theory makes sense.

When I built my boat, I sheathed the outside of the hull in glass and epoxy (for toughness) and finished the interior with oil and wax, so that it could dry out, and so that renewing the finish is simple.

Jack and Chuck and maybe some others pointed out that an impact from outside could damage my boat because there would not be glass sheathing on the interior working in tension to resist the impact. I think that is sensible and valid. Since my boat is not heavily used, and I'm not real interested in going through any sort of rapids, I decided to go the way I did and hope for the best. I did put extra bottom ribs, and two longitudinal keel strips on the boat so there is more framing on the bottom than UJ pirogue plans call for.

How likely is it that a pinhole or crack will occur and let water into the wood core? Is it really even worth worrying about on a paddle sized craft that doesn't live in the water? Who knows. A lot of guys have encapsulated boats that they have been using for years and years with no problem. That means more than theories.

GBinGA

 

[oldsparkey]

I have built them both way's , completely encapsulated and then other way of just glassed the outside with epoxy saturated on the inside. I did see where the one not glassed on the inside did have more flexing to the bottom then the ones completely glassed. Plus the wear on the inside of the boat where a person gets in and out of it does tend to scuff up the inside more then a glassed one.
So that lead to my third way of making one , glass about 3/4 ths of the inside where all the wear would be. That turned out to be the middle ground between the other two ways of making them.
The 14 x 30 Sasquatch was made that way and one reason I could keep the weight of it at 30 pounds. I said when I made it that it would never see rocks or rapids just sand and mud but that was before I knew I was going to paddle the Brazos with Ron , Darrell and Bear. The bottom took a Brazos Beating but all that happen was a few scratches on it. Yes , I did get hung up a couple of times on the rocks and naturally it was at the rapids. Actually all of us managed to do that. :lol: They were not your typical rapids where the water is deep and lots of standing waves , these are the shallow water kind where you can get out in a few inches of water and slide your boat off the obstacle.
Actually it might be better calling them a really wet , shallow water, Rock Garden.

Chuck.

 

[beekeeper]

gbinga
Very well said. Thanks for replying.

beekeeper

 

[Kayak Jack]

Working on your question of how much chance is there of a pinhole developing in epoxy, and letting moisture in: Two, very very slim, and none. I live in, and paddle the waters of, the Canadian Shield country. Rocks are part of Life here, granite, gneiss, quartz, flint, jasper, fossilized coral, etc. Boats here take a beating on most put ins and take outs. And to make things worse, the Michigan DNR adds broken concrete with exposed re bar, or spikes sticking out of RR ties at all DNR put in points. (With no work or expense at all, the landings would be better and safer. sigh)

Upshot is, my boats will sustain puncture wounds, and some scrapes. These are readily visible. I have never seen a boat develop a pinhole. I paddled the Brazos with Ronnie too, and it did a nice job of scraping the moss and barnacles off the bottom of my boat. Anyway, when I took out, I couldn't see any moss or barnacles. (Of course, there weren't any BEFORE I paddled the 6" deep river of 10" rocks, either.)

Long story short, you can reasonably forget to worry about pinholes in your epoxy. You will add 2-4 layers anyway, and they fill in.

 

[JEM]

I had a fiberglass bass boat that the transom rotted at about 10yrs.

Was it made from polyester resin? Polyester resin absorbs water when exposed for long periods of time. If the gel coat cracked (as it often does) it's not a matter of if but when the polyester absorbs moisture.

 

[beekeeper]

JEM
I don't know if it was epoxy or polyester. It was a trihull design, so it was probably polyester. I was the second owner. I don't know if the cracks caused the wood to rot or if the rotten wood caused the cracks. Doesn't matter. If water gets to the wood it can ( might, will, probably,sometimes, etc.) rot. Fiberglass and epoxy are probably the best defense.
I used my bass boat as an example, because it was the only case I knew first hand of a "glass" boat failing ( rot).
Seems the hand made boats are holding up well,epoxied or painted.

beekeeper

 

[gbinga]

...Was it made from polyester resin?...

Good point. I suspect that almost all mass production work is done with polyester. The material cost and the curing time would almost require it. And poly, as Matt points out, ain't the same as epoxy.

GBinGA

 

[hairymick]

My first build was a Jem Swampgirl.

I used cheap ply and cheap, non marine grade epoxy and the build itself was, at best, ordinary.

I used the boat hard for a couple of years and then sold it to some people who have used and abused it much worse than I.

It sits outside in the weather, and has not failed yet. I think I built it in 2004 or 5.