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Home Defense Rifle

Bilgerat

Well-Known Member
May 10, 2006
324
1
Texas!
www.bilgerat.net
OK, in your first post you mentioned .223. The Ruger Ranch is notoriously inaccurate. If I were in the market, I'd go with an AR-15. Actually, I am in the market and ordered a couple of them last November to keep my other two company. I'm still waiting for delivery. So are half the other folks in the U.S. since the election. Good luck getting anything .223 unless it's a private sale.

Oh! If you do find an AR-15, make sure it's stamped for 5.56 mm ammo. That's what the military uses and you'll find that's the cheapest ammo. It's safe to shoot .223 in a rifle bored for 5.56, but not the other way around. There is a slight difference in the cases and you don't want to shoot 5.56 in a rifle chambered for .223. It's not safe.

Mike
 

bearridge

Well-Known Member
Mar 9, 2005
3,092
4
way down yonder
The Mini 14 Ranch Rifle shoots both 5.56 'n .223. I shoot both in mine. Handloadin' military brass seems ta be a pain....extra truble....somethin' bout the primers.

opps.....AR-15 vs Mini 14 iz anuther never endin' tussle. :wink:
 

Bilgerat

Well-Known Member
May 10, 2006
324
1
Texas!
www.bilgerat.net
I don't know about the Ruger, but it is generally unsafe to fire 5.56 stuff out of a .223 chambered rifle. From Winchester:
The 5.56mm military cartridge fired in a .223 Rem chamber is considered by SAAMI (Small Arm and Ammunition Manufacturers Institute) to be an unsafe ammunition combination.
LINK

Mike
 

dawallace45

Well-Known Member
I used both 223 and 5.56 in my AR15 , CAR , Ruger Mini14 , Valmet and Leader T2 , also used to use both in all my .223 bolt guns , did have some trouble with one weird brand that was a little tight feeding in my Sako .223 , but it was both 5.56 and .223 marked cartridges from that brand that were tight , they fed fine in my CMC , Ruger , Carl Gustov and Parker Hale but some of the other different brands and batches showed primer flattening in some of the bolt guns , I once got a heap of Philippine ammo from a gunshop going out of business , one case was marked .223 and the other 5.56 , both had the same batch no. and both showed pressure signs in some of the bolt guns and in some of the semi-autos , of course when I was hunting it didn't matter as I never used factory ammo for hunting , hand loads only , and my hand loads worked well in every thing I had

Sorry I can't give more details on brands and batch no.s but I had all the info in one of my shooting diaries that went missing in the move from Beachmere to Clermont

David
 

hairymick

Well-Known Member
Dec 8, 2005
2,107
2
Queensland, Australia
The Ruger Mini 14 in .223 is a fine rifle, reliable and accurate enough for home defense and most combat like situations.

If you can hit the bad guy with it, I guarrantee you he won't be troubling you any more. Doesn't matter where you hit him.

Shotguns - love them. I just don't understand the pre-occupation with bloody pump actions. Fine guns but lets face it. You have to pump the bloody thing between shots. Now take a Winchester semi auto in 12 gauge. My type of weapon :D.
 

gbinga

Well-Known Member
Nov 7, 2008
736
2
Hoschton, GA
hairymick said:
I just don't understand the pre-occupation with bloody pump actions. Fine guns but lets face it. You have to pump the bloody thing between shots. Now take a Winchester semi auto in 12 gauge. My type of weapon :D.

Good point there. Purchase price probably enters into it. An 870 in plain Jane trim is dirt cheap. Not the best criteria for choosing a weapon, but it does enter in to the decision making process.

Gotta practice a little with a pump gun. If you don't fully appreciate what a short barreled 12ga feels like and sounds like when it goes off, that second shot is going to take a few seconds to organize. Someone spoke about popping off a shotgun in an enclosed room... I've not done that (except at the range with ear protection) but I bet it is disorienting for everyone involved!

gbinga
 

Bilgerat

Well-Known Member
May 10, 2006
324
1
Texas!
www.bilgerat.net
Jimmy W said:
From Ruger Instruction Manual:
"The RUGER® MINI-14® RANCH RIFLES are chambered for the .223
Remington (5.56mm) cartridge. The Mini-14 Ranch Rifle is designed to use either
standardized U.S. military, or factory loaded sporting .223 (5.56mm) cartridges
manufactured in accordance with U.S. industry practice."

http://www.ruger-firearms.com/Firearms/PDF/InstructionManuals/55.pdf
That's good to know. 8)

Mike
 

seedtick

Well-Known Member
Jul 22, 2006
1,161
7
Denham Springs, LA
Matt, I think you just hit the nail on the pecan

No one should have anything for home or self defense that they're not used to shooting.

you're better off with a .410 that you're comfortable with than a 12 ga. that you're afraid of the recoil

same thing goes for shooting a 357 or 44 magnum -if you can't handle it, don't plan to havr to depend on it
 

bearridge

Well-Known Member
Mar 9, 2005
3,092
4
way down yonder
Whether ya figger a 9mm pistol iz the big daddy dip dog funky monkey of the gun world 'er a sawed off number 10 ga. double barrel shotgun with double naught buckshot, ya still gotta shoot 'em. That oughta be the fun part, but I reckon ya'll seen it aint az eazy az it sounds?

I dont figger standin' still, takin' careful aim (like Ole Peach Eye) 'n puttin' a slow squeeze on yer trigger will do ya that much good.....less the evil doer who busts inta yer world iz a bigger dang fool than Bullwinkle Moose. However, that kinda shootin' beats no shootin'....less ya dont git round ta it but once 'er twice a year. I figger the main reason folks shoot a heap iz so they kin do it without thinkin' too much. I got a dollar sez when the dookie hits the fan clear thinkin' aint likely ta be all that eazy.

regards
bearridge

The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good.  George Washington
 

seedtick

Well-Known Member
Jul 22, 2006
1,161
7
Denham Springs, LA
shouldn't need to take careful aim if'n they're close

Qualifications for concealed handgun permits here in LA require shooting at a target at three distances don't remembr the distances exactly but they're something like 25', 15' and 9'.

at fartherest, you aim with your arms outstretched, just like target shooting with a pistol

at middle, your elbows are at you sides, forearms parallel to the ground and the pistol just in front of your breastbone

at closest distance, you're cradleing the gun against your body in your elbow - sideways to the target

instructors stress that you need need to be confident at close distances and not aiming

you're right about when the dookie hits the fan
 

oldsparkey

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2003
10,479
123
Central , Florida
www.southernpaddler.com
Anyone wanting to do a lot of shooting there is a critter out there made for that. A person can become so efficient with it it is like when your were a kid with a BB Gun.

You put so many rounds threw it you never had to really aim but just point and fire. Like the BB Gun it did not go threw cars or walls but is just as deadly and the number 1 with poachers , no recoil , low report and kills quite efficiently.

The lonely 22 , either Long Rifle hollow points or on down the line , kick it up a notch with the 22 Mag. That is one awesome cartridge. Any of them will kill at a good distance and they cost next to nothing when shooting them , especially compared to the larger calibers.

If push comes to shove around here , it is the 22 for me as a survival item , it will drop a person or make them dang sad they tried anything and as far as game critters ....... Hogs , Deer , Turkeys and the lesser food items can be harvested with the pore old 22. At a fraction of the cost of the big bore items. Even a large cow can't stand up to one round in the noggin.

Why do you think that the professional's prefer the 22 for there job , quiet and does the job , either wild critters or the upright walking and talking kind.

After all Gun Control is hitting what you shoot at , not the number of times you have to shoot..... One shot , One Kill. Survival , long distances or longer then for home defense , home defense , close from hand shaking distance to 21 feet at the max. Usually about 9 to 12 feet or less.

There is no way I will ever admit to the deer , and things you have to use a center fire cartridge ( rifle or shotgun) on by state law to hunt for but a 22 will drop then just as butcher shop dead. :roll:

Chuck.
 

bearridge

Well-Known Member
Mar 9, 2005
3,092
4
way down yonder
oldsparkey said:
Why do you think that the professional's prefer the 22 for there job , quiet and does the job.
cuz ya caint run no tests on the bullet ta tell what gun fired it 'n they shoot frum 2" away....rite behind the ear...mebbe less :mrgreen:

regards
bearridge

Little Bill Daggett: Bob walked right into the bar and shot at Corky, only he misses, 'cause he was so damn drunk he couldn't see straight. Old Corky went for his gun and got in such a hurry that he shot his own toe off. Bob shot at Corky again, and he misses again, because he's still so damn drunk. He hits this thousand-dollar mirror over the bar. And now, the Duck of Death is as good as dead. Because this time, Corky does it right. He takes careful aim, slowly squeezes the trigger, and... BAM! That Walker Colt he was carrying blew up in his hand, a failing common to that model. See, what I'm trying to tell you is if Corky really had two guns instead of a big *ick, he'd be alive today.

W.W. Beauchamp: Wait. You mean, English Bob killed him even though he didn't have...?

Little Bill Daggett: Well, Bob sure wasn't goin' to wait around for Corky to grow a new hand, was he?

 

oldsparkey

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2003
10,479
123
Central , Florida
www.southernpaddler.com
bearridge said:
oldsparkey said:
Why do you think that the professional's prefer the 22 for there job , quiet and does the job.
cuz ya caint run no tests on the bullet ta tell what gun fired it 'n they shoot frum 2" away....rite behind the ear...mebbe less :mrgreen:

regards
bearridge


Personal Knowledge :?: ...... :lol: :lol: :lol:

Bear , some fiends (Game Wardens) were done in a longer distances then that with a 22.
Make ya a deal , me at one end of a football field and you at the other , I have one shot with the Marlin 39-a and a scope on it since I wear tri focal's now days , winner takes all. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Pleas DON'T accept that , because I would not have a camping buddy to pick on me on the next trips.... Or we could just use a balloon , can't see the difference. :wink: Plus you are right those city boys have to in close or they will miss everytime.
The defense of your home at most times would be just as close and country boys hit at large distances like 3 or 4 yards.

Besides my main idea was something to have to get some grub with when everything turns belly up and it is every dog for themselves. 500 rounds of 22's takes a lot less space then 500 rounds of a larger caliber round and the smaller one will do just as much damage plus it will get the chow for you.

Chuck.
 

gbinga

Well-Known Member
Nov 7, 2008
736
2
Hoschton, GA
seedtick said:
...you're better off with a .410 that you're comfortable with than a 12 ga. that you're afraid of the recoil...

And the best gun in a gunfight is one that you have with you. Not one you left in the car 'cause it was too heavy to lug around.

(Mostly guilty on that count. I have a permit, but mostly leave the gun in the truck. What I mostly do is try to avoid crazy people when I'm out and about)

gbinga
 

bearridge

Well-Known Member
Mar 9, 2005
3,092
4
way down yonder
O Master Hijacker,

This thread iz....I mean wuz....bout a home defense rifle, then any gun. I hope ya aint tellin' the little pardners ta git a .22 fer home defense? The county law mite come take yer over-the-hill badge away. :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :roll: :roll: :mrgreen: :lol: :lol:

Now yer out in the woods shootin' cows, deer....mebbe the neighborhood barkin' dog. :wink: No four legged critter will be comin' inside yer home with a evil heart. I got a dollar sez if a two legged one (not a turkey) comes in yer house ya wont be grabbin' that Marlin. Ya jest like fishin'. Well, I got off the hook this time. 8) 8) 8) :lol:

regards
bearridge

ps This aint a grub thread. Besides, a fine airgun would be a heap quieter 'n the good ones will be more accurate at normal huntin' distances. If bad times come, takin' game without makin' much noise mite be a real good thing. Mebbe we need ta see jest what that Marlin kin do at 50 yards? I'll jest use an ole pump up Crossman 2200 (like the kind ya buy at the Mister Sam Walton Store. :mrgreen:
 

dawallace45

Well-Known Member
Many years back a mate I used to shoot IPSC with was thinking about tearing down the old workers cottage he had on his farm , another mate suggested we use it as a practice range for doing house clearing drills with shotguns as our club was talking about bring in rifle and shotgun IPSC , of course we would have liked to try the same house clearing drills with our IPSC handguns as well but that would have been illegal here in Australia as we are only legal to use them on a licensed range ,

We made up a heap of sand bags and set up targets in all the rooms [ with sandbags behind ] , mate used to change the targets around before every shoot so we went in clean with out knowing where the targets were , was a hell of a lot of fun but the first time I shot it I knocked my ear muffs off as I went through the door way , my ears rang for several days [ already had ear damage before that and had ringing in my ears for a year or so , was much relieved that the ringing went away after a few days ] , would have gone through 20 rounds , bloody lot of fun ,

I found during the next few years that I much preferred the Semi-auto shotgun to the pump , auto was much faster and just as reliable as the pump it also had the added bonus of being usable after a injury , when I fell off the top of a semi-trailer [ about the height of a pantech ] and busted up my arm , collar bone , damaged my neck , fractured my skull and tore up all the tendons and ligaments from my wrist to my shoulder on the left side , I couldn't use a pump gun for over a year , but I could handle a auto fine and could still shoot all my pistols no problem , of course when I damaged the tendons and ligaments in the right elbow and shoulder and wrist a few years later I couldn't shoot my beloved Springfield .45 ACP as I couldn't stiff arm it enough to stop the stove pipe jams and so had to go to a 9mm CZ , lovely gun in it's own right but no .45ACP , also because of the injuries couldn't shoot .357 mag , 45colt or 44 mag , but could shoot 38 sp ,

So what I'm saying in my round about way is that the gun you are using now may be totally useless to you after any sort of injury and as we get older these injuries are getting easier and easier , also you may want to take into account if your wife may be called on to use it ,

My wife can shoot a 45ACP very well and also 357 with full mag loads from a L frame or N frame revolver , in a K frame it was too much for her to shoot accurately , she could shoot hot 300 gn loads in a Ruger Super Redhawk but found standard 44 mag loads in a 4 inch S&W 28 way too much , she can shoot a 410 just fine but finds a 12 gauge too uncomfortable to shoot , she shoots rifles a AR15 and Mini 14 fine but balks at my 30/06 and 303/35 , 44 mag in a lever gun hurts her but she shoots 357 mag and 45 colt in a lever gun fine , so if your wife would considerably ever need to use the gun you need to take these things into account ,

Also a thing to consider is that I would never trust a new pistol for competition until I'd fired at least 1000 rounds through it , by that time I could consider the gun reliable and my self so familiar with it I could just about use it in my sleep , I used to practice with a series of slow fire precision drills at varying ranges out to 100 metres and then fast multiple target IPSC drills , I also used to take the barrel out of any gun pistol I was going to use for competition and drop all my competition rounds into the chamber to make sure they all fed properly and weren't going to hang up for any reason , I would do the same for any ammunition I was going to use for defence as well

Also if your wife or even older children could conceivably ever need to use the gun they should be totally proficient with it as well , and I don't mean just be able to hit the target on the range , they should be able to load the firearm quickly in the dark , be able to shoot from any position , sitting , standing , crouching , kneeling and so on , they should be able to shoot quickly and accurately under stress ,

I always figured the best way for my wife to learn to shoot was for her to shoot IPSC with me , actually we used to shoot IPSC , Practical Pocket Pistol and 10 Pin , Shirley used to come about 7 in the line-up , not bad considering she wasn't really all that interested and only doing it for me ,

There were 35 shooters in the IPSC section , three of them A grade shooters , 25 shooter in the Practical Pocket Pistol and 75 shooters in 10 Pin , what Shirley lacked in interest she made up for in training , she was the only woman in our IPSC club who could strip a 1911A1 in the dark , of course she was actually the only woman in our IPSC club too but as I found out on one of our Christmas shoots when some one organised a comp to field strip and reassemble a 1911A blindfold she was one of only three of us who could do it , she also had the distinction of being the only shooter in our IPSC club never having shot a hostage target in competition [ or practice for that matter ]

One of our two serving Police officers in the club had the distinction of having the record for shooting hostage targets in competition , in one comp he managed to shoot every single hostage target and only managed to get one scoring shot on a shoot target , I said to him after that shoot , " Bloody hell Tony that is frightening , if I'm ever taken hostage and you are called to take the shot , DON"T !!!!!!!!!! " he laughed and said " No Dave , that's not frightening , what is frightening is that I'm the best shot at my station "

Friend of mine likes to go camping , fishing and such , not really a hunter and because of a motorbike smash shattering his right shoulder not able to shoot a large calibre rifle with out pain , can't shoot a bow more than about 25 # and can't hit S#*t with one either , but he wanted a rifle of some sort for several reasons , we knew he had trouble with large calibres and really needed some thing that he could practice with cheap , so that pretty much meant a 22 long rifle or a pistol cartridge , he's shot my 44 mag lever gun several years before and it was way too painful for him , I handed him my 357 lever gun to try and it was fine , his wife had no trouble either , I did all his reloading for him until he got his own setup and he ended up with a 357 trapper carbine , lovely little gun , 16" barrel , still more grunt that a 357 handgun and no real recoil ,

I'm a firm believer that the best firearm to have is some thing you can afford to practice with all the time , old mate of mine has never owned a rifle bigger than a 22 , he bought a Ruger 10/22 about 30 years ago and used to go through 1000 rounds a week , that man was a wizard with that rifle , when he had to get rid of it during the buy back he bought a 22 levergun to replace it , quite honestly I'd rather go up against some of the guys I shot IPSC with that the old mate with his 22

Loved the little Ruger 10/22 I had and if it were still legal I'd have one now

Sorry for the long post but once I get onto the subject of guns I just get carried away

David
 

oldsparkey

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2003
10,479
123
Central , Florida
www.southernpaddler.com
Can't beat a Ruger 10-22 , on this side of the pond they can be modernized into quite an accurate very lethal ( Target shooting or competition weapon ) firearm and from the 10 shot to anything a person wants , right now.

I had one and could not hit diddly squat with it the way it was so it was traded off ( the trigger pull was horrible ) and I reverted back the the Marlin Lever Action with a hair trigger I had as a kid and still have as an ole fart , a proven game getter.

With a little gun smithing the 10-22 would of been a great gun but i like the lever action.

Chuck.
 

bearridge

Well-Known Member
Mar 9, 2005
3,092
4
way down yonder
Same here with the 10/22. It was a wonderful boat/trunk gun, but the lawyer trigger wuz awful.....even after Ole Crabby Bill smoothed it out some. Most people spend a small fortune ta git 'em ta shoot good. I got rid of mine 'n dont miss it one bit.