Hi! New Builder
- Thread starter Guillaume
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- glue laminating expoxy pirogue
the vast majority of pirogues that were ever built, that used glue, used Weldwood.
Folks tend to use the best available at the time and for probably 40 years (?) Weldwood was the best available. I know one boatbuilder from Plaquemine, LA that still uses weldwood. It doesn't fill gaps very well, and it's brittle, but that makes "ungluing" for repair easy.
Personally, I like epoxy but have used titebond 3 above the waterline
Folks tend to use the best available at the time and for probably 40 years (?) Weldwood was the best available. I know one boatbuilder from Plaquemine, LA that still uses weldwood. It doesn't fill gaps very well, and it's brittle, but that makes "ungluing" for repair easy.
Personally, I like epoxy but have used titebond 3 above the waterline
I don't think Weldwood makes the same product they used to make which people used to use anymore.
yes they do, you can get it from amazon
https://www.dap.com/dap-products-ph/weldwood-plastic-resin-glue/?m=1161&s=1175
https://www.dap.com/dap-products-ph/weldwood-plastic-resin-glue/?m=1161&s=1175
From what I read on a number of boards and having contacted the company itself, while some people may be using the above product, the weldwood product that was used popularly on boats about 5 years ago and earlier is no longer being produced. Not saying the above can't be and isn't used, just that it isn't the really good boat building glue that was used previously.
This is what I got from the company:
[email protected]
Aug 8
to me
Thank you for your correspondence and interest in DAP Products.
The adhesive that you are referencing is "Resorcinol" glue.
Unfortunately, DAP discontinued their line of the product about 5 years ago.
The Borden Chemical Company produces a resorcinol glue, and should be able to provide you with information as where to buy their product.
[email protected]
Aug 8
to me
Thank you for your correspondence and interest in DAP Products.
The adhesive that you are referencing is "Resorcinol" glue.
Unfortunately, DAP discontinued their line of the product about 5 years ago.
The Borden Chemical Company produces a resorcinol glue, and should be able to provide you with information as where to buy their product.
Let's see if using this photosite works
so starting off with some plywood. Going to cut both boards at same time.
Drawing my lines. Used a drywall t-square. Really good with 4x8 plywood
Lofting the sides
Using a pvc pipe and nails to draw the lines
Putting it together.
Bottom on
Putting fiberglass on the edges.
Lessons being learned this time: Don't totally take the boat apart after cutting it and putting it together to make sure if it all fits. If it fits, just unscrew a few pieces at a time and glue them back on. Perhaps next time even just forget gluing batons etc. and just put the fiberglass on. Second, I bought way too much 4" 6oz fiberglass cloth. Obviously didn't know what I was ordering. I think I can make like 50 pirogues with the amount of cloth I got. lol.
so starting off with some plywood. Going to cut both boards at same time.
Drawing my lines. Used a drywall t-square. Really good with 4x8 plywood
Lofting the sides
Using a pvc pipe and nails to draw the lines
Putting it together.
Bottom on
Putting fiberglass on the edges.
Lessons being learned this time: Don't totally take the boat apart after cutting it and putting it together to make sure if it all fits. If it fits, just unscrew a few pieces at a time and glue them back on. Perhaps next time even just forget gluing batons etc. and just put the fiberglass on. Second, I bought way too much 4" 6oz fiberglass cloth. Obviously didn't know what I was ordering. I think I can make like 50 pirogues with the amount of cloth I got. lol.
Hey! It worked! Still need to add seats, put on rub rails and varnish the boat. I'm thinking about epoxing the whole bottom first though to prevent water rot.
Not trying to drift the thread too much but we're talking two different glues.
The one I referenced is a ureaformaldahyde glue and the one you referenced is a resorcinol formaldehyde glue
If I remember correctly the resorcinol glue required a tight fit (higher standard of workmanship) on the gluing surfaces, tight clamping and was purpleish in color. It was (is) an excellent glue and good for exterior use, water resistant and has uv resistance. It was a combination of a red syrup and a brown powder.
The urea formaldehyde powder mixed with water. I don't know any of the old boat builders that used the resorcinol glue.
The one I referenced is a ureaformaldahyde glue and the one you referenced is a resorcinol formaldehyde glue
If I remember correctly the resorcinol glue required a tight fit (higher standard of workmanship) on the gluing surfaces, tight clamping and was purpleish in color. It was (is) an excellent glue and good for exterior use, water resistant and has uv resistance. It was a combination of a red syrup and a brown powder.
The urea formaldehyde powder mixed with water. I don't know any of the old boat builders that used the resorcinol glue.
I responded to your Aug. 25 post. Matters not now. You glassed it, so my post would not apply.
beekeeper
I didn't say it was good, just that it was the best they had at the time
Remember also that these boats were built with mechanical fasteners as well as glued.
The first boat I built back in 1970 used weldwood and the wood started to rot before the glue gave up. However the label even says for interior use only. Because of its historical usage, I would call it adequate, but there are better glues out there today. I use the better glues and so do most other folks
Sorry if I muddied the water with my response, just wanted to give a bit of historical insight on glues
Remember also that these boats were built with mechanical fasteners as well as glued.
The first boat I built back in 1970 used weldwood and the wood started to rot before the glue gave up. However the label even says for interior use only. Because of its historical usage, I would call it adequate, but there are better glues out there today. I use the better glues and so do most other folks
Sorry if I muddied the water with my response, just wanted to give a bit of historical insight on glues
Let's see if using this photosite works
so starting off with some plywood. Going to cut both boards at same time.
Drawing my lines. Used a drywall t-square. Really good with 4x8 plywood
Lofting the sides
Using a pvc pipe and nails to draw the lines
Putting it together.
Bottom on
Putting fiberglass on the edges.
Lessons being learned this time: Don't totally take the boat apart after cutting it and putting it together to make sure if it all fits. If it fits, just unscrew a few pieces at a time and glue them back on. Perhaps next time even just forget gluing batons etc. and just put the fiberglass on. Second, I bought way too much 4" 6oz fiberglass cloth. Obviously didn't know what I was ordering. I think I can make like 50 pirogues with the amount of cloth I got. lol.
I'm glad the postimage worked for you. Thanks for taking time to post the pictures, they will be a help to other builders. Don't get too hung up on the technical details like glue. Enjoy the boat!
Reference Resorcinol glue: I read articles about rebuilding antique aircraft. Wooden aircraft built in WWII era using Resorcinol glue were still holding together. Some rot had occurred where water had gotten in, but glued joints still had their integrity.
Judging from that, it would seem worthwhile to seek a source for a Resorcinol glue.
Judging from that, it would seem worthwhile to seek a source for a Resorcinol glue.
Well I must need to get better technique on glassing a boat. Put water in the bottom of the boat last evening and there was way too much water coming out the sides. Maybe I need to get some Flex Seal unless someone has a better idea.
I always filleted the seams along the inside of the boat and then glassed the inside. The outside was also glassed.
1....To fillet the seams ....I lightly sand the area , then tape off each side of the seams with masking or painter tape. Leave about a inch or 1 1/4 inches strip exposed over the seams between the tape.
Mix up some wood flour and epoxy and spread a bead of it along the inside seam between the tapes. I use a old charge card to spread it out over he seam. Hold off for about 30 to 40 minutes and then pull the tape so it does not get epoxied to the boat and you will have a nice fillet over the seams.
Then I would lightly sand the fillet and the last step was glassing the inside of the boat.
2....Or just run a strip of glass over the seams and epoxy it to seal the area.
1....To fillet the seams ....I lightly sand the area , then tape off each side of the seams with masking or painter tape. Leave about a inch or 1 1/4 inches strip exposed over the seams between the tape.
Mix up some wood flour and epoxy and spread a bead of it along the inside seam between the tapes. I use a old charge card to spread it out over he seam. Hold off for about 30 to 40 minutes and then pull the tape so it does not get epoxied to the boat and you will have a nice fillet over the seams.
Then I would lightly sand the fillet and the last step was glassing the inside of the boat.
2....Or just run a strip of glass over the seams and epoxy it to seal the area.
Thanks. Now I have a chine board over the seams, so I guess I need to fillet the the seams on both sides of the chine board?
Don't worry, Gully; it's all a learning curve. AND, no boat will ever come out perfect. Here are two, true stories. (For god's sake, don't ever let it get out that I'm telling true stories??!!)
(1) Before I built my first kayak, a Pygmy kit, I had been calling around talking with various kit manufacturers. In those days, the owner of the company often answered the phone himself. I was talking with the young fellow who had started CLC Company. I think his name was Chris. He has since sold the company and moved on to something else. Anyway, he told me about the boat he had built the week before, to take to a boatshow. He had it all constructed, and applied the last, finish coat of epoxy. Went in and had lunch. When he came back out, there were squirrel tracks right across the deck! He had to take the boat to the boatshow as is, and explained it.
(2) One spring, at the annual Quiet Water Symposium at Michigan State University, an ugly boat made of 1/2" plywood, 2X4s, and 10 penny nails was in the display lineup. There were hammer marks all around every nail. I asked the fella, "What's the story behind THIS boat"? He replied, "Well, I teach 5th graders. They built the boat. Then - I took them all fishing, one at a time". I said, "You sly dog, you. You hooked every one of those kids, didn't you"! "Yep".
The point is that, (A) no matter what the boat looks like, they float. (B) And you will get better with each boat. (C) And you will look for designs that better fit what you think you want to do. (D) And what we think we want to do, more closely resembles what we were most recently doing, than it does what we end up really doing next. (E) Your wooden boats will garner more positive comments than all of the other non-wooden boats put together, in whatever sized group of non-wooden boats you happen to be with. (F) And none of those boats will ever be perfect in our eyes.
(1) Before I built my first kayak, a Pygmy kit, I had been calling around talking with various kit manufacturers. In those days, the owner of the company often answered the phone himself. I was talking with the young fellow who had started CLC Company. I think his name was Chris. He has since sold the company and moved on to something else. Anyway, he told me about the boat he had built the week before, to take to a boatshow. He had it all constructed, and applied the last, finish coat of epoxy. Went in and had lunch. When he came back out, there were squirrel tracks right across the deck! He had to take the boat to the boatshow as is, and explained it.
(2) One spring, at the annual Quiet Water Symposium at Michigan State University, an ugly boat made of 1/2" plywood, 2X4s, and 10 penny nails was in the display lineup. There were hammer marks all around every nail. I asked the fella, "What's the story behind THIS boat"? He replied, "Well, I teach 5th graders. They built the boat. Then - I took them all fishing, one at a time". I said, "You sly dog, you. You hooked every one of those kids, didn't you"! "Yep".
The point is that, (A) no matter what the boat looks like, they float. (B) And you will get better with each boat. (C) And you will look for designs that better fit what you think you want to do. (D) And what we think we want to do, more closely resembles what we were most recently doing, than it does what we end up really doing next. (E) Your wooden boats will garner more positive comments than all of the other non-wooden boats put together, in whatever sized group of non-wooden boats you happen to be with. (F) And none of those boats will ever be perfect in our eyes.
Thanks for the encouragement. I need to build at least one more 14 ft. pirogue and 3 8-10ft pirogues to get my whole family in the water. LOL.
With the recent weather down south, perhaps I should be building an ark.
With the recent weather down south, perhaps I should be building an ark.
Do you all use a jigsaw for cutting your plywood? What blade do you use because the wood blade I used on this plywood seemed to have too rough of a cut?