'Glass - Paint - Varnish...what order? | SouthernPaddler.com

'Glass - Paint - Varnish...what order?

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DJR

Member
Apr 12, 2007
24
0
Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Hi,

I'm new to this, so it may be obvious to some...but what's the best order to apply 'coatings' to the wood?

I am soon to start building a S&G kayak, and was planning to paint the hull and varnish the deck. I assume both these go on over the fiberglass, in the order of fiberglass first, then any painted areas, then varnish the lot.

Is this correct / optimal, or do I paint prior to fiberglassing? I thought this may affect absorbtion / adhesion of the epoxy, but then the glass would protect paint to some degree from scratching.

Any guidance from people who have actually built a boat is appreciated!

Regards,
Darren
Melvbourne, Australia
 
K

Kayak Jack

Well-Known Member
Aug 26, 2003
13,976
171
87
Okemos / East Lansing Michigan
Darren,

If your paint is UV resistant, you would not need to varnish over it. No need to varnish below the water line, because it isn't supposed to be in the sun all that much anyway, and epoxy is much harder than varnish.

Below the waterline, your epoxy will be both harder and slicker if you enrich the 2nd , and subsequent, coats with powdered graphite. About 20% by volume of added graphite. Usually, three coats of enriched epoxy does it. CAUTION: Do this outside if possible. Powdered graphite can be a pesty thing that gets on you, your clothes, the furniture, the wall, etc.

May I ask, if you are building a pretty wooden boat, why are you painting over the wood? Natural wood will be much prettier than painted. Just curious.
 
D

dangermouse01

Well-Known Member
Sep 8, 2006
312
1
Palm Bay, FL (East coast)
bearridge said:
Lemme ask agin....any of ya'll use the 303 aerospace protection on yer boats? If ya do, raize yer hand. :wink:
Click to expand...

Err....ok, my hand is halfway raised. I use 303 on my plastic boats for extra UV protection and it makes it easier to clean off smudges and stuff.

Are you asking as using 303 instead of varnish on wooden boats for UV protection, or in addition to varnish for extra protection?

On the original subject..dont think it is easy to get paint to stick to varnish, but I think you can get varnish to stick to paint. Or is it the other way around.:?

I am with Jack, haven't painted any of the wooden boats yet, just varnish, not that I have anything against painting them.

DM
 
B

bearridge

Well-Known Member
Mar 9, 2005
3,092
4
way down yonder
Friend DM,

I been considerin' usin' it on my plastic boats. I wuz jest curious if it wuz useful on the wooden boats.....mite help the High Sheriff slide over logs eazier. I also heard a fella tell how Armor-All will eat up a plastic boat. Sounds kinda fishy ta me.....like mebbe the 303 folks put that tale out.

regards
bearridge

An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field. Niels Bohr
 
J

JEM

Well-Known Member
Dec 27, 2003
2,467
1
54
Greensboro, North Kacalacky
jemwatercraft.com
DJR said:
Hi,

I'm new to this, so it may be obvious to some...but what's the best order to apply 'coatings' to the wood?

I am soon to start building a S&G kayak, and was planning to paint the hull and varnish the deck. I assume both these go on over the fiberglass, in the order of fiberglass first, then any painted areas, then varnish the lot.

Is this correct / optimal, or do I paint prior to fiberglassing? I thought this may affect absorbtion / adhesion of the epoxy, but then the glass would protect paint to some degree from scratching.

Any guidance from people who have actually built a boat is appreciated!

Regards,
Darren
Melvbourne, Australia
Click to expand...

Cover everything with your glass and epoxy first. Only change the color of the wood BEFORE glass and epoxy with a water based stain. In your case, there's no need for stain since you're painting and varnishing last.

So do your fiberglass and epxoy work first. Then paint the parts of your boat you want painted. Put the clear varnish on last because if you dribble over onto the paint a little, no big deal. Doubt you'd notice. But if your paint dribbled over the varnish, well you'd see that for sure.

Glass, epoxy, paint, varnish. That's what I'd do.
 
K

Kayak Jack

Well-Known Member
Aug 26, 2003
13,976
171
87
Okemos / East Lansing Michigan
I'd keep the silicone stuff as far away from my boats as I could. It may be nice the first time you spray it on. When you try to do a repair you will have trouble getting it to stick. The silicone tends to penetrate, I hear. Have to sand away a lot of parent material. Also, if it gets on the floor inside a boat, it will be pretty slippery and you could fall overboard. Then someone might call you "Chuck". The SHAME of it all!

Graphite enriched epoxy on the bottom of a wooden boat gives a slick surface, and it is harder'n the hubs of hell.
 
H

hairymick

Well-Known Member
Dec 8, 2005
2,107
2
Queensland, Australia
S

seedtick

Well-Known Member
Jul 22, 2006
1,161
7
Denham Springs, LA
I would varnish the bright work first, then paint the rest of the boat. That way if you get a little paint on what's been varnished, you can wipe it off and it won't soak into the wood.

Paint over varnish looks like paint, varnish over paint also looks like paint.
 
C

catfish

Well-Known Member
Feb 7, 2007
996
3
jesup, ga.
Mick I really appreciate you posting about matts tips. Ive just looked @ them & it explained alot to me with having the pics to look @. The one that I really understand now is the stitch & glue. :? The example with the tie wraps & pop sticks was a good one.

Thanks also matt for sharing the tips. :)
 
D

DJR

Member
Apr 12, 2007
24
0
Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Thanks!

Hi all,

Thanks for the replies. If/when I do paint, it'll be in the order recommented.

I am still to start the boat (my first one) but am leaning towards the CLC Chesapeake 17LT as featured in the S&G book by Chris K. I can get the plans locally and there's plenty of instruction, good reviews and support around. I wanted something versatile for my first build..and there will be more (probably a fishing boat next, maybe one of JEM's more stable creations like Mick fishes from). Then there's the strip-built ones I want to do... :D

My thoughts on painting came from the cover of Chris' book - I liked the white hulls contrasting with the natural wood, although I'd probably only paint up to the waterline, and thought paint would be easier to re-do than varnish when the bottom gets scratched.

I'll be sure to post pics of the build and progress (I'm sure I'll ask lots of questions too!). First step is lengthening my workshop - it's 15' long so next week's task is to extend by a few feet and build a full-length bench for cutting & scarfing.

Regards,
Darren
Melbourne, Australia
 
B

bearridge

Well-Known Member
Mar 9, 2005
3,092
4
way down yonder
Friend Darren,

Build whatever floats yer boat. Ask questions. I will keep quiet, but the other fellas here, includin' Matt, will help ya build whatever boat ya pick. I figger they git az much pleasure frum helpin' other folks build a boat az buildin' one theirownselves.

regards
bearridge

Better be wise by the misfortunes of others than by your own. Aesop
 
D

DJR

Member
Apr 12, 2007
24
0
Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Hi,

Bearridge, thanks for the kind words. I'll definitely be calling on the wisdom of others here! My experience so far is building wooden ship models, so I have the tools, patience and skills, I just need to actually "do it" now...working with epoxy, fiberglass, and 17' long bits of wood will be a whole new adventure :)

Chuck, my workshop is a double garage, and due to a rear fence I can only extend back by 6', which will give me an internal space of just on 23'...but I can open the door and pull the boat out a bit (I'll have the building base on lockable castors) so I have more room to work around it. Will post some picks of the shop when it's set up.

Thanks for a great forum, hope I can contribute once I have the experience!

Regards,
Darren
 
B

bearridge

Well-Known Member
Mar 9, 2005
3,092
4
way down yonder
Friend Darren,

I got a heap a tools, but I am jest a collector. :wink: My favorite tools are small pry bars that help me tear stuff apart.

What kinda water ya aim ta paddle.....river, lake, ocean, backwater, swamp?

regards
bearridge

It is unbecoming for young men to utter maxims. Aristotle
 
D

DJR

Member
Apr 12, 2007
24
0
Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
bearridge said:
What kinda water ya aim ta paddle.....river, lake, ocean, backwater, swamp?

regards
bearridge
Click to expand...

Hi Bearridge....I'll be paddling a few different waters, so have an excuse to build a few different boats :wink:

Locally, mainly river (not rapids, mainly wide(ish) and flat) and bay...Melbourne is situated on a huge bay with lots of paddling opportunities.

On holidays, I'll do lake and ocean paddling.

And sometimes I'll take something more stable and manouverable for fly-fishing smaller rivers and lakes.

So the first boat will be a bit of an allrounder - a CLC Chesapeake 17LT or similar. Next will be the fly-fishing boat...planned to be a Mill Creek 13 or Jem equivalent, although I'm now considering a pirogue (maybe :) ).

I have friends who race (marathon) and so will eventually do a fast boat like the Guillemot Mystery. I plan to paddle (one day :roll: ) the Murray Marathon - a 404km race (over 5 days) down the Murray River here.

So, I need to get the workshop done this month, to start the first boat, to have it ready for our holidays at Christmas.

Happy paddling/building,

Regards
Darren
 
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