Epoxy application and cold temps....

[oldyaker]

I am applying epoxy to the boat. About 2 weeks ago I quit the process until the weather warms. What I noticed, at 50 or below degrees, it took alot longer for the epoxy to cure. The colder it was, the longer it took.
My question........Does the colder temps have an affect on the strength of the epoxy after it finally cures?

 

[oldsparkey]

Epoxy sets up by a chemical heat process and the colder it is the longer it takes to set. It should not have any bad effect on it when it finally cures but in your case it will take a little longer to totally set up.

If it does not totally set up then we know who will be feeding the gators on a trip. Boy I hope they like Garlic and Dago wine on the half shell. (Jack made me say that) ......I know ... SERIOUS SECTION

I never mix and use any when it is lower then 70 which is one day every three years here in Florida.

Chuck.

 

[bearridge]

It should not have any bad effect on it when it finally cures but in your case it will take a little longer to totally set up.

I never mix and use any when it is lower then 70 which is one day every three years here in Florida.

Sooooooooooooooooo.....how would you know? I bet yer makin' it up az ya go along. :mrgreen:

the skeptical
bearridge

The man who says he is willing to meet you halfway is usually a poor judge of distance. Laurence J. Peter

 

[dangermouse01]

I never mix and use any when it is lower then 70 which is one day every three years here in Florida.

That "one" day would have to be today, current temp at 7:00 PM is 49 degrees here in Palm Bay, probably a little chillier to the North and West where Chuck lives.

DM

 

[Kayak Jack]

Never use epoxy within 24 feet of an Eye-tall-yun. Ya hafta read the small print on the can.

Chuck - we need to remove the "serious" part of the label for this section. Try9ing to corral this crew is like pushing a log chain down a road.

WAIT - I take it all back. I re-read it. Only the QUESTION has to be serious. Answers can continue to be arcane. WHEW!

I was worried there for a minute. (Well, not really worried.) Cause, you see, "Quite frankly, my dear, ...."

 

[oldyaker]

Another serious epoxy question. I have alot of epoxy for this project. Probably have alot left over. Is it proper Eye-Tal-Yun etiquette to make shoes from epoxy in lieu of cement? It does sink, doesn't it?

Anybody know Chucks and Jacks shoe sizes? I wanna giva dema bigga surprise nexta river trip!

 

[Kayak Jack]

THAT wasn't a serious question. You lose all your "atta boys"!

(Chuck's a size 11. But twelves feel so good he buys thirteens.)

 

[stevesteve]

Anyone remember the question.. ok good...

I wrote this for a UK board but I'll translate it into your funny foreign units for you!

As a rule of thumb the reaction speed doubles for every 10 centigrade degrees (18 farenheight degrees) rise in temperature.

So if it takes 5 hours to go to a 'green' state at 20C (68F), it would take 2.5 hours at 30C (86F) but it would slow to 10 hours at 10C (50F). I haven't tried it a temp below that but I think it should work in theory but very sloooowly!

 

[oldsparkey]

As long as it cures , that is the main thing , in colder weather it will take longer ( as you have shown) but be just as good. If anything in cold weather it might be better to use a faster epoxy if a person wanted it to set up faster.

The epoxy I use here in the Florida heat would take forever to cure in cold weather.
The problem I have is that in the cooler weather it is almost impossible to get the epoxy out of the measuring pumps. I usually place a black plastic bag over them , set them in the sunlight for a while to warm up and then I can get the pumps to work and the epoxy to flow.

Anything from 70 on down it is ... hold off till it warms up.. Or then use the black plastic bags warm it up if I really need to mix a batch.
All of the ones I have done that way work perfectly. I need it at that temp to mix it , then if the weather cools down , after the pieces have been epoxyed ...No Problem.

It is my understanding that the epoxy creates it's own heat and sets up by a chemical reaction. Mix a batch incorrectly with to much hardener in it and you can burn your hands before you get to use it , been there , did that.
The air temperature does have a factor in it ( as you have proven ) as to when it finally cures or sets up. The hotter it is outside the faster it sets up ... the cooler the longer it takes but still sets up or cures.
If anything the cooler air temps would give a person more time to work with it then a person would working with it in 95 or 100 degree heat , air temp.

Chuck.

 

[hairymick]

Heya chuck,

does anybody live where it gets colder than 70 degrees or are they just trickin us..

( Chuck stepping in here... Yep warm , sunny, Florida , frost ever where today and 33 degrees out side this morning. )

 

[stevesteve]

G'day Mick,

I am really hoping that it will be warm enough to get my outer gunwhales glued on this w/e. Been too darned cold the last couple. Honest it has, the puddles have frozen

 

[oldyaker]

Been too darned cold the last couple. Honest it has, the puddles have frozen

2XSteve.....My puddles have been frozen solid since Jan 5th! :cry:
Upon Chuckies advice......I will start glassing with epoxy tomorrow.
I don't know if will even be 50F in the area where I'm working.

Now, next serious question. I cut the glass to size with a little over hanging down over the hull. Than, I apply epoxy to the bottom of the hull, than spread the glass over the hull and spread more epoxy over that......Right?

Now, can I just do the bottom of the hull, come back tomorrow and do one side, come back the next day and do the other side?


Now.....I ain't no Rockit Signtist (SHUT UP JACK! :twisted: ), but something tells me when I start draping the glass over the boat, I'm going to get of bunching of the glass cloth as I tighten and fit it down. I would bet quite a bit on the bow and stern areas. How do you deal with that? :? (A)Do you cut out some of the bunching up? :? (B)Fold it over? (C)Cuss and swear at Chuckles? :x (D)Go for another beer? (E) All of the above? :roll:

 

[Kayak Jack]

Yakus Glassicus,

Your saturation coat(s) on the hull should be all set and dry before you start glassing. And, NO DO NOT PRE-CUT THE GLASS for width. Only pre-cut for length.

Say, glass the front half of the boat first. Measure enough glass to reach the center of the boat, plus a foot or two extra. Lay it on so the next piece from the rear will overlap that foot or two in the center. It should hang out in front far enough to cover the stem end. Line up one edge of the glass with one gunnel, leaving about 2" extra hanging down. On the other side, cut off the extra, again leaving about 2" extra hanging down. You should have a long, triangular piece of "waste" Don't throw it away.

The pointy part (that's what we tell you land lubbers is the bow) of the boat will have extra glass. Once the glass is carefully laid on the boat, pick up the extra glass that hangs out in front, and using shears, cut back to the point of the bow where the glass meets the boat. You may want another pair of hands helping for this operation.

The two sides can be folded over each other over the bow. Glue them down one at a time.

A day or two later, do pretty much the same thing in the back of the boat.

Go drink some dago red.

 

[oldsparkey]

Unlike Jack who likes to do it in chunks , pieces or parts ..... When I make my mind up to tackle it I do it all at one time and heck take the high most.

After the hull is epoxy saturated , sanded (lightly to remove the burs ) ... then it is ... put the glass over it and smooth it out , the overhang is cut about 2 or 3 inches below the outside railing. The railing is taped with some masking tape and ready for the glass. If I am lazy or just not sure then it is .. let the glass lay there for a day.......

OK.... It looks right , there is a overhang on both sides .... Mix the epoxy after the roller is ready and the paint pan it goes in for the roller is in a secure place and out of the way ...... On go the rubber gloves and the next thing I know ( about an hour later ) the hull is glassed in and looking good. Let it set for about an hour and then go back and trim off the excess above the underside (actually the underside of it when the boat is in the proper position) of the railing and then pull the masking tape.

The way I see it is that I am there doing it so why not do all of it........This is not the time to goof off , just the time to get it done.......Unless you like repeating things.

Trim the bow and stern glass if I made a mistake then later after some trimming and sanding a piece of fiberglass tape over it.

Chuck.

 

[oldyaker]

ROLLER! :shock: PAINT PAN! :shock: OK.....Nobody told me about no roller and paint pan! Off to Home Depot. I didn't know you used a roller and paint pan. JEEEEEZ! Am I glad I waited!

Put the glass down....roll over it with epoxy on a roller. Gotcha! :wink:

I must seem pretty stupid....Huh? (Shut Up Jack! :wink: )

 

[oldsparkey]

I told Ya when we 1st were talking about you building a boat , man what a short memory. You must have a case of the Kayak Jackites ... I hate to say this but modern medicine has not found a cure for it and it sure looks like they never will.

"O" Well back to today............. I use the Linzer 3/16th inch nap 9 inch roller from One Coat Paints for all smooth surfaces , Urethanes , Epoxies and enamels roller.

I cut it at the 4 1/2 inch mark with a razor knife ( you have to measure and mark it yourself) on a 4 inch roller adapter. This gives me two rollers for the price of one.

Then line your paint tray with the disposable paint tray liners for the mixed epoxy to be put in , this way there is no clean up when done.

More work rolling out the epoxy but the smaller roller will help to roll out the glass for a smooth surface.

You can roll on more coats later to the desire amount or thickness of epoxy you want after the glass is down.

Chuck.

 

[Kayak Jack]

J9mmie, get pan liners for the roller tray so you can reuse the same tray.

I do the glass in two chunks because it is easier to tackle in bite sized chunks. And, I have something worth doing in between the two chunks.

 

[oldyaker]

Ohhh yeah Chuck........ He He cough........ Ya did tell me. Found your email on that subject. I feel so stupid.... :roll: The mind is a terrible thing. :?
OK, Gotcha on the roller. Will Do. Thanks.....You can help me drain the next box of Dago Red I tote along. If you can pry Jacks lips off the spigot! :roll:

 

[hairymick]

33 degrees :shock: it NEVER gets that bloody cold here. today, I am wishing it did. 0600 and 79 allready.

Re the epocy in cold etc. here is a very good read on how some people in very cool climates do it and it seems to work well for them.

http://www.westcoastpaddler.com/communi ... opic&t=755

There are also a lot of very good build tips too.

BTW, that Dago Red sounds lovely. been a good whle ince I had any of that.

 

[oldsparkey]

BTW, that Dago Red sounds lovely. been a good whle ince I had any of that.

Mick
You need to be on one of our canoing and camping trips , the water is in the river and the Dago Red is flowing freely on the table , then we have something to eat (no one remembers what it was ) the campfire is blazing away and the Dago red is flowing again.

Jezzzeee. One person ( his name is with held to protect the guilty , right Bear ? ) showed up at one trip with more gallons of wine then water and one MRE to Eat for the 5 day trip. We fed him as he poured the wine for the trip , I think he still has that MRE.

Then we pour or slosh ourselves into the sleeping arrangements , tents for some hammocks for others , One camper even managed to fall out of a non fall out of hammock but he did it and he does not drink anything stronger the swamp water coffee. Must of been something in the air that got to him , because on the next trip we gave him some wine and had to wake him up in the morning and make him move , he was sleeping in the out house.

OK.......... Just pulling ya leg with the above story ( One guy did bail or fall out of a hammock that is imposable to fall out of and he was sober , which made it that much more fun for the rest of us ) ........ We do enjoy a drink in moderation before supper with some snacks , then a splash with supper and one after that to settle our meal and get us ready for bed time......... MAN ... That coffee is sure good in the morning.

Why do they have to make such a bright and loud campfire in the morning ? Then there are those obnoxiousness birds that have to be so loud , happy and chirping in the morning. Yep , we get no respect when out camping from the wildlife.

We do have a good time , share drinks or the fixings for them , have good meals and a darn good nights sleep under the stars or rain clouds , there is no better sound then some rain coming down on your camping shelter during the night as ya snooze away , then repeat the pleasures in the morning with good food and strong coffee or tea before hitting the river.

Chuck.