Canoe building question

[tx river rat]

This thread bring home to me how much knowledge is held by members of this forum.
Matt as the head designer puts up with us and gives us great advice and designs.
Seedtick and company are the experts on solid timber and recreating historic boat. I feel like they deserve the tag craftsman in this area, Awesome builds.
Chuck is the man on light built boats and the man I would go to if I wanted to learn the art of a single blade and of course Florida paddling.
Jack is the man on the North shield country and the Au Sable if I was headed north he would be the man I would talk to
Mick our Aussie buddy is an experienced builder and paddler from surf skis to canoes single or double blade ,I respect Micks views very highly.
Jd and Rcots Piper the men on paddling Louisiana camping and cooking ,swamp folks extraordinaire
I am leaving a lot of folks out just from a bad memory and not wanting to type that much.
It seems the whole crew contributes and that makes this a extremely informative forum
Ron

 

[Kayak Jack]

Ron, I met a fellow this morning who has a plastics company near Jackson MI. Expanded polystyrene, as I remember. I asked him about it, and they use it for building parts for cars & planes. It seems to be easy to work with, (can be glued with Elmer's, Gorilla, Duco airplane cement), "welded " with a heat source (hairdryer), etc. I'll contact him for company name and address, etc. He didn't have a business card on him. May be another material to consider; may or may not be something to use.

 

[JEM]

Jack - Possible you mean polyethylene?

 

[Kayak Jack]

Might be; he had a lot of technical stuff rolling out, I gathered up some of it.

 

[swampwood]

Expanded polystyrene foam (EPF) is a plastic material that has special properties due to its structure. Composed of individual cells of low density polystyrene, EPF is extraordinarily light and can support many times its own weight in water. Because its cells are not interconnected, heat cannot travel through EPF easily, so it is a great insulator. EPF is used in flotation devices, insulation, egg cartons, flats for meat and produce, sandwich and hamburger boxes, coffee cups, plates, peanut packaging, and picnic coolers. Although it is generally called Styrofoam, Styrofoam is a trademark of Dow Chemical Company and refers specifically to a type of hard, blue EPF used mainly in boating.

 

[JEM]

Might be; he had a lot of technical stuff rolling out, I gathered up some of it.

Yea there's a few different "poly" foams out there. Polyethylene can be "welded" if you heat it up. Meaning, you melt some of the surface, stick against some more polyethylene, and it will lightly bond. Great stuff for packaging computers and shock sensitive items. It's spongy. But it is a plastic and pourous material.

I'm guessing it's dense polystyrene that your friend was referring to. Be interesting to find out for sure.

 

[swampwood]

Addressing some of these post , 300 dollars for a bagging set up , I can build two boats for that or close to it.
Ron

I'am curious,
What materials do you use on your boats that only cost around $150.00. Cloth weights and how much e-poxy? Strip thickness (1/4" or 3/8")?
The kevlar canoes did not have any exposed edges to sand (The gunales covered them). :!:

 

[tx river rat]

Swamp
I dont do kits so my builds are much cheaper and I have the ability of customizing my boat to fit my needs
The foam boats would use two sheets of foam , 20.00
Gallon of epoxy 68.00
Cloth for a 14 ft boat would 60.00
, thats 148.00 if I am adding right.These were the boats we were talking about
In a strip built boat I normally cut my strips from 2 by 6 wood ,at Lowes these are 13.00
three to four will build a boat depending on the design ,using 1/4 strips.
So adding this in instead of foam that puts me at 178.00 still keeps me under 200.00 dollars.Thats close to 300 dollars for two boats I stated
I understand depending on how you build the kevlar canoe that you could hide the top edges , still be some cutting and sanding to finish that edge where the cloth wraps up flush to the top. and tell me how you do the bow and stern with no raw edges or sanding you dont do any reinforcement there? dang I wish you had some pictures. This might be educational to us on how to lay up a normal boat without having to finish any raw edges.
If you have any other questions about My statements just ask I ewill be glad to explain my self.
Ron
Opps cloth weight 6 ounce 60 inches wide in a safari layup

 

[swampwood]

Ron,
I asked the question for my own educational purposes. And I was refering to wood-fiberglass construction. Not counting the plans
The ends were reinforced, but with fiberglass cloth outside and kevlar inside. One of my tricks. I will try to get my brother-in-law to send me the pics of his if your interested in building one?

 

[tx river rat]

I have no interest in building one , they wouldn' stand up very well where I paddle and the way I use a boat but I always like to see different types of construction
I am still confused at how you wrap a hull in Kevlar ,outside a mold and have no ends showing. When you lay up the cloth what do you do on the bow and stern where you have to split the cloth at the ends. You dont have to sand the ends to get your fiberglass to lay flat and isnt that defeating your purpose to spend the time and money to lay up a Kevlar boat and then put regular fiberglass on the places that get the most wear.
On the cost of the boat this thread was discussing foam built boats and that is where the 300.00 dollar figure came from and like i said I can build two for that. A strip build boat will run under two hundred a boat if you know what your doing. I didnt include plans that is true but I have been known to build from plans in my head and they are free. :lol: :lol:
Ron

 

[swampwood]

Ron,
All the finishing work on the ends is done off the mold. (fiberglass tape out and kevlar cloth in) I sold mine and the other is still in use. I built them both around 15 years ago. Thanks for the info
Swampwood

 

[tx river rat]

If you are wanting to build one boat off a foam mold and it has contours that make it hard to pull take laquar thinner or acetone put in a spray bottle and spray the foam it will melt .
Do this outside in a well ventilated area with no heat source around. Basically this is the lost wax mold process.
Ron

 

[islandpiper]

I've followed this entire thread and one thing is for certain. Swampwood and TRR have waaaaay more time to build boats than i do.

I'm going to file a formal complaint to the US Government's FAIRNESS COMMISSION to see if they will "spread the free time" around a little when they get done "spreading the wealth around". Stand by, I'll let you know how this works out.

piper

 

[swampwood]

Piper,
The secret to having more free time is learning to do with less. (Money that is)
Hope that helps!

 

[jdupre']

Piper,
The secret to having more free time is learning to do with less. (Money that is)
Hope that helps!

Swampwood, I wholeheartedly agree. BUT, piper will tell you that if he had to do with less , he'd have to OWE money at the end of the month.

Joey