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Best Bottom Protection/Maybe?

texastom

Well-Known Member
Jul 29, 2013
184
4
Dallas
Gosh BeeKeeper, every time you post a picture I get inspired and really want to try to do something as nice as you do. Then I wander off into a bunch of you-tubes and forget how I got there.
 

beekeeper

Well-Known Member
Mar 4, 2009
1,849
52
Kayak Jack said:
Good morning, JD (08:00 here). Is this finish as "slick and slippery" as the graphite? My boats go through lilly pads and other green gunk as easily as open water. Well, danged near as easily. Does the granite powder make the finjsh gritty?..........
The granite powder did not make the mix "gritty". I did add too much in the first coat and caused the finish to have an "orange peel" texture. Reduced the granite and Rocktite for the second and it leveled out fine.
The finish is more glass like, than slippery. Graphite could be added if you are a fan. This would probably create a homemade version of the "Goop It" coating sold at Academy Sports.
My guess is the graphite coatings may be somewhat better in the weeds. Probably can't tell one from the other for open water paddling. The granite coatings will scratch less and maintain its fairness better, so they should work better if the graphite is damaged. After redoing the pirogue it seems to paddle much easier.

beekeeper
 

ulav8r

Member
Jan 25, 2022
14
0
72
Would the rockite, graphite, epoxy mix be suitable directly to bare wood or is priming or fiberglassing required underneath.
 

beekeeper

Well-Known Member
Mar 4, 2009
1,849
52
Would the rockite, graphite, epoxy mix be suitable directly to bare wood or is priming or fiberglassing required underneath.
Welcome to the forum.
I have not applied the mixture to bare wood, only to painted wood. That being said I would think it should be OK. The unfinished/sealed wood might need more than one coat of mix.
Some of the "epoxy" guys might know more.
Since you will already have the epoxy resign to make the mix, you could put a saturation coat on the bare wood and then top coat that with the mixture. I would do this while the epoxy is still tacky. If you have serious concerns some tests on some scrap wood could be done.
Fiberglass is not needed for the mix to stick.
One more food for thought. If you don't have the epoxy for the mix and you have no plans/need for it with your build Goop "Coat It" has worked well for me and may be cheaper than buying epoxy just for the bottom.
A small disclaimer. I have not used graphite added to this mix. I believe Oldbuffpilot has. You might want his thoughts. Also I should have asked "What are you building?".
 

oldbuffpilot

Well-Known Member
May 13, 2014
566
23
79
Central Kansas and Central Texas
I have had good results with the glass, resin, graphite, rockite, mix and is my go to bottom mix. I did try a sample on a cedar strip panel, saturation coat and mix directly on the wood.We were thinking of using it on a grandsons "17 lb" pirogue, but I chickened out and went with the proven cloth and mix. He had worked so hard on the boat I didn't want to experiment. That sample panel is still around the shop , I think the mix would work good on wood. I have learned to go light on the rockite, just a little adds abrasion resistence a lot makes the bottom rough.
 

ulav8r

Member
Jan 25, 2022
14
0
72
Have one bought plan, a DK15 that I may actually build someday. Also want to build a couple of canoes, a 14' Puddleduck SOF and a 16-17 foot cedar stripper. However I think the first will probably be an 8' garvey that I drew up plans for. Made some alterations to the drawings today, am at the limits of my software and skills. I think I have enough to get started and the rest to be worked out as I build. It will be a while before I can get started, am working on finishing building a house. Items left to do: tile floors, wood flooring, build cabinets, hang and trim doors, trim windows, etc.

The garvey will fit in the bed of my truck with little overhang past the tailgate, will be used for fishing rivers, creeks, and small lakes. The new house is 1/2 mile from a 40,000 acre lake so I will need a bigger boat for that.
 

oldbuffpilot

Well-Known Member
May 13, 2014
566
23
79
Central Kansas and Central Texas
Have one bought plan, a DK15 that I may actually build someday. Also want to build a couple of canoes, a 14' Puddleduck SOF and a 16-17 foot cedar stripper. However I think the first will probably be an 8' garvey that I drew up plans for. Made some alterations to the drawings today, am at the limits of my software and skills. I think I have enough to get started and the rest to be worked out as I build. It will be a while before I can get started, am working on finishing building a house. Items left to do: tile floors, wood flooring, build cabinets, hang and trim doors, trim windows, etc.

The garvey will fit in the bed of my truck with little overhang past the tailgate, will be used for fishing rivers, creeks, and small lakes. The new house is 1/2 mile from a 40,000 acre lake so I will need a bigger boat for that.
 

oldbuffpilot

Well-Known Member
May 13, 2014
566
23
79
Central Kansas and Central Texas
I looked at the Garvey plans site, interesting boats there. Did you down size the 10' plans? I am interested in what software you used, Sounds like you are busy man. Have you considered using the Strip, Stitch, and Glue method ? I've found it to be lighter, cost much less, and just as sturdy as plywood. You can see some I've built on this forum or JEM Water craft, unfortunely some of the build pictures are gone.
Good luck and welcome to the forum.
 

beekeeper

Well-Known Member
Mar 4, 2009
1,849
52
.......................... I've found it to be lighter, cost much less, and just as sturdy as plywood. You ....................
Where do you buy your epoxy? I have used US Composites but it looks like their prices have increased since I bought last. $91.75 for a one gallon kit. The West Systems is probably 50% more. How much do you typically use for one boat?
 

oldbuffpilot

Well-Known Member
May 13, 2014
566
23
79
Central Kansas and Central Texas
JD, I use RAKA in Florida, they have a good reputation for quality and are the least expensive, last time I checked a 6 qt kit was $113. how much for an average boat would be a an educated guess as I always have some on hand. I'd guess a 6 quart kit would do about a boat and a half. I use both "glue mix" and the resin very sparingly. Cut the waste of the fillet material by not mixing excess. Then very thin fill coats on the cloth. Also I mark the pumps into 1/2 , 1/4 , and 1/8. to mix small batches.
I usually look at the raka web site to decide about what I need then call them to order, they are very helpful and keep my info on file so it's easy to order. ph 772 489 4070. Thats more information than you ask for...but it was free!
 

ulav8r

Member
Jan 25, 2022
14
0
72
I looked at the Garvey plans site, interesting boats there. Did you down size the 10' plans? I am interested in what software you used, Sounds like you are busy man. Have you considered using the Strip, Stitch, and Glue method ? I've found it to be lighter, cost much less, and just as sturdy as plywood. You can see some I've built on this forum or JEM Water craft, unfortunely some of the build pictures are gone.
Good luck and welcome to the forum.
Have not seen a garvey site, but have looked at one sites that had 4 different lengths and a site that had one. Started with a 4x8 sheet cut a v at the front that was 2 feet long and 6" wide at the end. Printed that out and cut up a coke cardboard case for a model. Gave it a shallow v of about 5 degrees, then pulled the v at the front closed to raise the front end. Initially cut 15 inch sides, a transom that leans back 15 degrees, and the front "transom" will probably be between 5-15 degrees. The cut across the width at the front will be laid out with a laser line and cut after the transom and sides are installed up to the point where the sides will start to curve up toward the front. Will probably reduce the sides to 12" high and flare them about 15 degrees.

The software used is Nanocad, a 2d cad program. I will one of 3 motors that I have. Have a 10 lb thrust Minnkota that I think I bought in 1974, it has about 1 hour runtime on it. I have a 24 lb Motorguide that needs a mounting bracket and controls, got it for $17 about 5-6 years ago at a yard sale. Also have a 1.5hp Evinrude, 1968 model, bought at an estate auction 5-6 years ago for $35. Not had time to clean it up and get it running, but I don't think it will take much. It has good compression and the inside of the gas tank is still wet.

The boat will look like a Jon boat with a shallow v botton.

P.S. Have some 5mm underlayment plywood from Home Depot for the garvey. Almost $10 a sheet, about 10 years ago. Will try the SSG for the DK15. http://www.jemwatercraft.com/proddetail.php?prod=DKDingy15
 
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oldbuffpilot

Well-Known Member
May 13, 2014
566
23
79
Central Kansas and Central Texas
Have not seen a garvey site, but have looked at one sites that had 4 different lengths and a site that had one. Started with a 4x8 sheet cut a v at the front that was 2 feet long and 6" wide at the end. Printed that out and cut up a coke cardboard case for a model. Gave it a shallow v of about 5 degrees, then pulled the v at the front closed to raise the front end. Initially cut 15 inch sides, a transom that leans back 15 degrees, and the front "transom" will probably be between 5-15 degrees. The cut across the width at the front will be laid out with a laser line and cut after the transom and sides are installed up to the point where the sides will start to curve up toward the front. Will probably reduce the sides to 12" high and flare them about 15 degrees.

The software used is Nanocad, a 2d cad program. I will one of 3 motors that I have. Have a 10 lb thrust Minnkota that I think I bought in 1974, it has about 1 hour runtime on it. I have a 24 lb Motorguide that needs a mounting bracket and controls, got it for $17 about 5-6 years ago at a yard sale. Also have a 1.5hp Evinrude, 1968 model, bought at an estate auction 5-6 years ago for $35. Not had time to clean it up and get it running, but I don't think it will take much. It has good compression and the inside of the gas tank is still wet.

The boat will look like a Jon boat with a shallow v botton.

P.S. Have some 5mm underlayment plywood from Home Depot for the garvey. Almost $10 a sheet, about 10 years ago. Will try the SSG for the DK15. http://www.jemwatercraft.com/proddetail.php?prod=DKDingy15
Thanks for the reply.Sounds like your having fun planning. The 5mm underlayment is a good plan, I've supervised numerous pirogues out of it with young folks. Years later some of them are still in use. I aso bulit a JEM TV 15-32 out of luan. My opinion about the 5mm ply is that to make a lasting boat it needs lots of TLC, if it is fully encased in fiberglass it works pretty good. Just my 2 cents. The DK 15 looks like a good choice, similar to the crawdad. I built the crawdad prototype and it's my favorite all around small boat. Looks like the DK might have a more
efficient hull.
Looking at your user name...are you an aviator?
 

ulav8r

Member
Jan 25, 2022
14
0
72
Was an aspiring aviator. The first web forum I ever signed up for was rec.crafts.aviation/ultralights, but never managed to carry through with that.