Andrewp's Clinker-style Pirogue

[andrewp]

As I wandered past the 4X8 sheets of ply paneling at Home Depot, I had a sudden inspiration: use the ply paneling to create an imitation "clinker" or "lapstrake" style pirogue. So, I got an Uncle John's rib kit, borrowed a stem piece from Ol' Sparkey, and despite a bunch on naysaysers who said my pirogue was going to fall apart on contact with water :roll: , I have started .......

The pirogue is a standard 16' length with 12" sides. Used 1/4" butt-blocks to connect the sides. Width measured 25" at bottom, about 30 1/2" at top of gunnell. I have yet to put the bottom on, but I've already epoxy taped it together (both sides) and it will attach right at the center rib. Bottom piece was just a 4x8 piece of standard "SandPly" from Home Depot (which is also where I got the paneling).

Ribs were installed with plasic ties in a "stitch-and glue" fashion. They allow me to adjust (slightly) the position of the ribs for best alignment. The stems have been sewn together with ties as well. I may end up using the Unle Johns stem piece(s). Problem is that a standard stem piece is on 10-11", and my sides are 12". So I can canabalize from one stem, and not have enought for the second. Oh well, I'll either create a stem, or just go with the tie-wrap, or possibly cut the stern off and make it flat ...


OK, take a look and tell me what you think .... I'll post more comments as I progress ....

http://community.webshots.com/photo/958 ... 7641GSqjBo

http://community.webshots.com/photo/958 ... 8358BKlOkc

http://community.webshots.com/photo/958 ... 8871GZGMpV


Hey Chuck -- very little sanding so far!!! 3M stock prices are down with the news .....

 

[Kayak Jack]

Andy,

Looks nice. Are the horizontal lines scribed only on the outside? Or, are those actually separate strips of wood? The inside surfaces of the sides look smooth. I can't tell real well in the pictures.

The completed boat has some white rectangles on the sides near one end; what are they?

Your black saw horses are like two that I have. Handy, aren't they. Have the 2 X 4 ones ever fallen apart on you? Mine were a real PITA! I threw away the metal brackets and used the wood for better purposes.

 

[andrewp]

Jack: the horizontal lines are only on one side, slighly scribed into the wood. But the wood strips are not really strips in the formal sense of the word, just made to appear as strips. But it really looks good ( I wish you could blow-up the picture I posted -- you could get a better view) ....

The white rectangles on the completed boats are just pieces of masking tape that mark where my braces are located underneath the decking. This is so if/when I cut in a hatch, I don't cut on top of bracing .......

I hate my stupid wooden sawhorses -- they are not long for this world. But the other ones work great!

 

[Kayak Jack]

Hear that, Chuck. If you ever do a Boat Building FAQ section, don't forget to curse all saw horses made with 2 X 4's and metal brackets. They should be cast into the dump.

 

[oldsparkey]

Andrew

You are going to have a one of a kind, head turner, when that pirogue is done....Get ready for a lot of questions when it is on top of the truck.

If the stem pieces are to short then cut some wood and fit it in on the top or just block and seal the open side and fill it with wood flour and epoxy.

I use the saw horses like are in andrews picture. The wood ones are used to hold the compleatd boats up off the floor.
Chuck.

 

[Pirogue]

Methinks some one has an addiction

 

[andrewp]

OK, well, I admit to having three boats right now. And I admit that I have cut wood for two more. And I admit that I have plans for another one (or two). And yes, I visit "Southernpaddler.com" -- but only a half-dozen times a day. Well, there may be some other web sites I visit too ... but they have to do with fishing, from padling boats! That doesn't count, right? Right? RIGHT??

I won't get into talking about the 60' mothership I'm planning ....... :twisted:

 

[oldsparkey]

Andrew

You said ..... I won't get into talking about the 60' mothership I'm planning .......

When do you want to start on her, man, she could carry the pirogues when down in the key's cursing and fishing , never have to come home but we would need a lap top puter to keep the rest of these guy's informed. :?
Chuck.

 

[Kayak Jack]

I just LOVE it! In a few short months, Andy went from a reasonable, rational, slightly doubtful man - to a total boat-lunatic.

GOOD GOING, ANDY!

(Your medication is coming soon, relax, son)

 

[kc4zvw]

OK, well, I admit to having three boats right now. And I admit that I have cut wood for two more. And I admit that I have plans for another one (or two). And yes, I visit "Southernpaddler.com" -- but only a half-dozen times a day. Well, there may be some other web sites I visit too ... but they have to do with fishing, from padling boats! That doesn't count, right? Right? RIGHT??

I won't get into talking about the 60' mothership I'm planning ....... :twisted:

If I win the lotto I might consider a mothership like the Bolger Illinois
in wood or wood with aluminum hull:

http://www.hallman.org/bolger/Illinois/

It would only take about on the order of 450 4x8 sheets of 1/2" plywood
if done in wood.

regards,

David

 

[Kayak Jack]

(SNIP) If I win the lotto I might consider a mothership like the Bolger Illinois in wood or wood with aluminum hull:

http://www.hallman.org/bolger/Illinois/

It would only take about on the order of 450 4x8 sheets of 1/2" plywood
if done in wood.

Sounds like a rerun of Howard Hughes and the Spruce Goose. He built a plywood sea plane, a gigantic one - an airplane that couldn't fly.

 

[andrewp]

kc4zvw: Funny you mention, it -- I'm a big Phil Bolger fan ......

And the Illinios is my dream boat -- OK, a 45' Grand Banks trawler with an all-female, bikini-clad crew is my ultimate dream boat -- but seriously, I really like the Illinois and have comptemplated going ahead and purchasing the plans. But I really am not in a position to start building and living aboard just yet. I figure all of this practice on smaller boats helps get me ready ..... :wink:

But Chuck is right -- the idea is to get a boat big enough to carry me, the misssus, and maybe 1-2 others for an extended time -- 6 months of the year or so. I'd hang out up and down the ICW and down the Keys and fish from my pirogue or kayak ......

For those of you who don't know of Phil Bolger, I can highly recommend reading anything he has done. He mostly designs small boats, but has designed some large ones as well. 600+ designs and counting. He seems to design a boat around a purpose, and not worrying if it "looks right". Many consider many of his designs wacky, ugly, and too utilitarian, but what is unique is that he will say when he makes a bad design, and only cares that the boat fit the purpose. My favorite part of a bolger design is how he takes time to explain the whys of his design like no other designer.

For more on Phil: http://www.hallman.org/bolger/

 

[kc4zvw]

kc4zvw: Funny you mention, it -- I'm a big Phil Bolger fan ... And the Illinios is my dream boat -- OK, a 45' Grand Banks trawler with an all-female, bikini-clad crew is my ultimate dream boat -- but seriously, I really like the Illinois and have comptemplated going ahead and purchasing the plans. But I really am not in a position to start building and living aboard just yet. I figure all of this practice on smaller boats helps get me ready ..... :wink:

Bolger Gypsy or Shellboats Swifty 12 would be on my list of possibilities.

http://www.shellboats.com/sbboats.html#swifty
http://www.instantboats.com/gypsy.htm

Wishing to build a Redwing:

http://www.thelittleboatshop.com/Web_Pages/custom_boats.htm
http://www.cmdboats.com/rw18.htm

her bigger sister:

http://www.cmdboats.com/rw26.htm?cart_id=3dfd473e4ca32d29319c56e48da0999e

regards,

David B.

 

[andrewp]

Quick update: last week, the bottom was cut and stitched to the sides. The braces were epoxyed onto the sides and bottom (stitched the bottom to the braces and it snugged up the bottom to the braces really nice).

This weekend I hope to

1) Do some end pours

2) "Weld" the bottom to the sides so I can cut out all the stitches and start filling them

3) Maybe start working on the internal/external rubrails and getting them installed.

The following week I should be able to start the internal and external fillets and tape ....


Help!!

I have run into a quandry on how I am going to handle the finishing on the outside of the boat. I need your thoughts .....

Here's the problem: The outside panel is completely "finished" in terms of sanding and, interestingly, with some type of protective sealer. I applied epoxy to a sample piece, and when dry I notices that the epoxy "beaded up" like water does right after you wax a car. It looks like it would be a major pain to epoxy the outside, because you will end up with an uneven finish (almost like the boat is eternally wet) where in certain places no epoxy sticks ....

I thought about sanding the outside with an extremely fine grit paper, but I'm concerned because the finished ply side is very thin. But I guess that could possibly be an option. May end up trying that on another test piece. But that would be a lot of extra work I hadn't planned on ....

I don't think I can 'glass the sides, because of the raised paneling and lines would keep me from being able to get the glass to lay smoothly -- just don't think that will work.

I was considering trying Thompson's Water seal, followed up with some varnish -- I may end up with the same problem as the epoxy, but I'm not sure, maybe the Thompson's would penetrate the wood a little more than epoxy does. Anyone have any experience with Thompson's??

Any other ideas would be appreicated ......

oh yeah, I'll post some more pictures this weekend ......

 

[Kayak Jack]

Thompson's

Andy,

Thompson's leaves behind an oily film, doesn't it? I don't think anything would stick to it. Try it on a scrap piece.

Any left over Thompson's (or Behr) deck seal can be used to spray on your maps to waterproof them. First, apply the flat-finish Scotch tape to the perimeter edges of the map, on the back side. This reinforces the map & keeps it from tearing. Then lay your maps out on newspaper and mist the sealer onto it. Get one of those pump-n-spray bottles at the supermarket & fill it with the waterproofer.

Other uses would be on gritz, underarm deoderant, and post-flossing mouth wash.

 

[Kahuna]

Here's the problem....

Andrew, Dave Carnell chec out his URL and his resume, go to his info on Epoxy Encapsulation and his opinions of it. Maybe for this "knock-About" boat you could just prime and paint. Check this out: http://home.att.net/~DaveCarnell/ Kahuna

Quick update: last week, the bottom was cut and stitched to the sides. The Here's the problem: The outside panel is completely "finished" in terms of sanding and, interestingly, with some type of protective sealer. I applied epoxy to a sample piece, and when dry I notices that the epoxy "beaded up" like water does right after you wax a car.

 

[JEM]

From his site: http://home.att.net/~DaveCarnell/epoxy.html

"ENCAPSULATION

You will note that I have not mentioned epoxy encapsulation; i.e., coating both sides of everything with several coats of epoxy resin. It has no advantages and is a waste of money and time that adds useless weight. It won't turn lauan underlayment into marine plywood, though it will make it cost nearly as much. It does not keep the water out of the wood boat that lives in the water and a dry sailed boat doesn't need it. "

He couldn't be more wrong. True it won't improve the quality of the wood, but to say coating boat sides has no value is completely incorrect.

 

[andrewp]

I've read his website, and a recent article he posted in "Messing About in Boats" (a really cool, 2X a month magazine (cheap -- $30/year subscription, b&w only, but the great feature is a bolger design every issue). He allows that the glue in the wood plys makes all the difference, and that most water comes in from the seams. His view is that no matter what you cover wood with, water will make it's way in. So you might as well just paint it (cheapest way) and go with that ...

I tend to agree that there is certainly no way that epoxy hurts the situation, and I believe can only help. And, do as much as you can to insure that all wood seams are sealed as best you can.

Anyway, for info I emailed him anyway with this problem, and I'll see what he has to say. Will let everyone know ...

 

[Kahuna]

Not for me...

I agree with you JEM...there is no way I am going to invest allot of time and money in a craft and not spend a few bucks for extra epoxy. I just threw this out to Andrew(it appears he had already heard about not doing Epoxy Encapsulation) because I didn't think this was a expensive boat he was building. KAHUNA

From his site: http://home.att.net/~DaveCarnell/epoxy.html

"ENCAPSULATION

You will note that I have not mentioned epoxy encapsulation; i.e., coating both sides of everything with several coats of epoxy resin. It has no advantages and is a waste of money and time that adds useless weight. It won't turn lauan underlayment into marine plywood, though it will make it cost nearly as much. It does not keep the water out of the wood boat that lives in the water and a dry sailed boat doesn't need it. "

He couldn't be more wrong. True it won't improve the quality of the wood, but to say coating boat sides has no value is completely incorrect.

 

[Kayak Jack]

Water & Wood

Keeping water out of a boat is like keeping ants out of a house and like virginity amongst prostitutes. They're all imaginary.

Paint may be OK, but it will do nothing to strengthen the wood itself, only help oreserve it. Simple reason is - that's what it's designed to do.

Epoxy will strengthen the structure. Epoxy and fiber glass (kevlar) will strengthen the structure A LOT. 50 gallons of paint will not add strength. A few quarts of epoxy and a few ounces of fiberglass will.

Wood is the core of the boat. Why would you not want it to be the best core available? Keep thinking: hull integrity, hull integrity, hull integrity, hull integrity, hull integrity, hull integrity, hull integrity, ...

Then think: cracks, moisture, swollen wood, wasted money, wasted effort, wasted time, weakened hull, sinking feeling, ... How far to shore? Can I make it?

It's only critical.