I am in the process of building a max length UJ with hard wood ply 5.2mm that I purchased at Southerlands. I am thinking of building it with 11.5" sides which means I would have to have 3 scarf joints in the bottom per Uncle John or just buy another $12 sheet of 5.2. I am 6'1" and 300lbs and will be fishing in lakes with potentialy large chop at times from both wind and power boats. I am concerned with side height and strength and reliability of the boat and would prefer to keep the boat under 60lbs. Any thoughts??????
A UJ for a Big Boy
- Thread starter FloatingBear
- Start date
If I were in a lake with potentially large chop, I'd use a boat with a semi round bottom configuration. Maybe a vee, but certainly not a flat bottom.
FloatingBear said:
I don't understand the 3 scarf joints for the bottom , a normal build is one for the bottom and one for each side piece which makes three.
The standard build with 12 inch sides will hold up and I have seen guys your weight and over 6 1/2 feet tall paddle the pirogue without any problems.
I have had my pirogues in some situations where it was a rail grabber or paddle strangler and came out above water and dry.
I would not ( voluntary ) take anything but a Sea Kayak out in a strong wind or large waves and then I would have a spray skirt on to seal the cockpit.
On the other hand I have paddled a canoe in waves that were higher then the canoe but that was not by choice but necessity on a couple of trips. I have also see a person paddle a standard pirogue in waves from 2 to 2 1/2 feet high and winds gusting to 55 mph.
As with any boat a lot depends on the person using it ,
Ideally the pirogue is a shallow and calm water craft or in waves of moderate height.
Thanks guys!
The three scarf joints remark came from Uncle Johns modified plans to place a 3/8ths bottom on his boat under FAQ. Where his standard plan calls for a 10" side. I thought the extra 1.5" to 2" I could squeez out of that method might be helpful. As far as a chined bottom I may also build one of those SOF pirogue's built by Woodman. The SOF might be more appropriate on Lake Ouchita just in case the wind came up while I am out. I have experinaced swells of 3 to 4 feet during a storm on Ouchita while in a 28' Hunter sail boat. On the lake nearest my home I have experianced 1 to 2 foot waves from a bunch of kids in a stinking ski boat while paddling my Dagger 10.5 though most of the time it is smooth paddling.
Thanks again. Many more questions to follow.
The three scarf joints remark came from Uncle Johns modified plans to place a 3/8ths bottom on his boat under FAQ. Where his standard plan calls for a 10" side. I thought the extra 1.5" to 2" I could squeez out of that method might be helpful. As far as a chined bottom I may also build one of those SOF pirogue's built by Woodman. The SOF might be more appropriate on Lake Ouchita just in case the wind came up while I am out. I have experinaced swells of 3 to 4 feet during a storm on Ouchita while in a 28' Hunter sail boat. On the lake nearest my home I have experianced 1 to 2 foot waves from a bunch of kids in a stinking ski boat while paddling my Dagger 10.5 though most of the time it is smooth paddling.
Thanks again. Many more questions to follow.
I checked out the lake on the net ...that is a big lake with some BIG fish.....
I don't think i'd get out on the big part with a pirogue...
I don't think i'd get out on the big part with a pirogue...
Lake Ouchita has almost 1000 miles of shorline counting the islands. I think I will be keeping my little pirogue near to shore and within 1/2 a mile or so of my launch point just incase I have to walk back. I have been on this lake before with 5+ foot waves during a storm and thankfully I was in a 28' Hunter Sail Boat. That was not a fun day on the water.
I am serioulsy considering putting partial decks with a lip on my UJ just for the potential swells.
I am serioulsy considering putting partial decks with a lip on my UJ just for the potential swells.
I was going to hit it this weekend but with the big cool down today it looks like I'll just be yaking! My friend Capt Dan is coming over and were going to do a slow float on the Ouchita River below Carpenter Dam.
I have been unable to find a source for the Baltic Birch so I bought two 4X8 sheets of marine grade fir and I will just saturate the frames with epoxy before assembly. I know Jeff said coating with epoxy does not increase the strength of the wood but my experiance with my UJ Pirogue says otherwise. I applied a double coat of RAKA epoxy on a spare gusset and it is substantialy stronger and more rigid without the use of fiberglass cloth. I don't want to offend Jeff so I likely will not mention it on the other board.
I have been unable to find a source for the Baltic Birch so I bought two 4X8 sheets of marine grade fir and I will just saturate the frames with epoxy before assembly. I know Jeff said coating with epoxy does not increase the strength of the wood but my experiance with my UJ Pirogue says otherwise. I applied a double coat of RAKA epoxy on a spare gusset and it is substantialy stronger and more rigid without the use of fiberglass cloth. I don't want to offend Jeff so I likely will not mention it on the other board.
I do not know Jeff but I will be polite and just say ....He is wrong. 
Epoxy saturation on wood does increase the strength of the wood and anyone who cares to can prove it to themselves , can.
Just take some scrap wood , leave one piece plain , saturate the other , then on another one saturate it and the re coat it with epoxy.
Take the three pieces and break them , the plain wood is easy to break and the ones with the epoxy are harder to break , the more epoxy the harder they are to break.
Epoxy saturation on wood does increase the strength of the wood and anyone who cares to can prove it to themselves , can.
Just take some scrap wood , leave one piece plain , saturate the other , then on another one saturate it and the re coat it with epoxy.
Take the three pieces and break them , the plain wood is easy to break and the ones with the epoxy are harder to break , the more epoxy the harder they are to break.
Sorry Boss. Woodman get's on the other forum. It's Jeff the owner of Kudzu Craft. I had mentioned several times coating my frames for a sof kayak build with RAKA epoxy and some of the guys said it was over kill that they just throughly coat their frames with teak or some type of oil. Again I just did not want to offend Jeff as he does build some very nice boats and seems very willing to share his knowledge.
I think of us as a unique brotherhood and would never want to drive any type of wedge between us. Besides I despise drama.
I think of us as a unique brotherhood and would never want to drive any type of wedge between us. Besides I despise drama.
I'd expect that oiling wood would help add a preservative factor. Oiling would render it impossible to get epoxy to stick, though, and it certainly wouldn't be expected to add any strength factor.
Bear...you mentioned somewhere that some of the shops down you're way use the Chinese rendition of the Russian Baltic Birch ..The salesman up here said the cores of the ply were poplar..if I'm not mistaken...Well if it has as many plys as the B.B. I'd get that and saturate it with epoxy...." for the frames of SOF kayaks"
I've already purchased 2 sheets of the marine grade fur but it is really good looking ply. Jack the guys doing the oiling are doing only oiling and they are using a variety of differant oils.
Are they lashing the frames of oiled wood? One day, I have to build a skin-on-stick boat, just to say that I did.
Yes they are lashing only. You should go check out Jeff Hortons site (Kudzu Craft) and look at his videos. If you purchase his book it includes plans for two differant boats. Another good one is Yostwerks Kayaks. Jeff even has a forum.
http://messing-about.com/forums/forum/1 ... ilter__all
http://www.kudzucraft.com/index.php
http://yostwerks.com/index.html
Jeff builds most of his boats with Dacron Polyester now but the boats in the destructo video are I think 12oz balistic nylon.
http://messing-about.com/forums/forum/1 ... ilter__all
http://www.kudzucraft.com/index.php
http://yostwerks.com/index.html
Jeff builds most of his boats with Dacron Polyester now but the boats in the destructo video are I think 12oz balistic nylon.
Multi Chine and Dacron Poly skin make the boats a little faster by what I've been told. And almost anything will stick to the dacron so you can paint them or just use clear polyurathane. These guys tell me the dacron is not as tough as the nylon but darn close.
thanks, FloatingBear. NoBucks has some decent plans and boats too. I just have to go buy another gallon or three of ambition to get one started.
Jack where in the heck does a guy form Okemos go to paddle? What kind of boat do you paddle? I'm in a Dagger 10.5 I picked up on the cheap from a friend.
Well, Michigan IS the Water Wonderland state. A sister state boasts "Land of 10,000 Lakes". We'd have to fill in more than a thousand of our Michigan lakes if we had only that many. And, many miles of picturesque rivers. And, our waters are clear. You can read the date on a dime in 30 feet of water. (Well, maybe only 25.) :|
Also, two Canadian provincial parks - Lake Superior an Killarney - are not far away. So, I'm able to struggle by, with a little effort. :|
Also, two Canadian provincial parks - Lake Superior an Killarney - are not far away. So, I'm able to struggle by, with a little effort. :|
On Google Maps it looked like after you drive an hour or so north it becomes a virtual wonderland.