A New Direction? | SouthernPaddler.com

A New Direction?

Kayak Jack

Well-Known Member
Aug 26, 2003
13,976
171
86
Okemos / East Lansing Michigan
I'm wondering, why we've wandered off into this direction of complaining about politics? It's interesting to some, and maybe to many. But, it sure is a departure from boats and camping and fishing etc. And, it's starting to sound a bit like just olde fartes pi$$ing and moaning and whining.

Maybe it's just me, don't know? :?: Carry on.
 

oldsparkey

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2003
10,479
123
Central , Florida
www.southernpaddler.com
Kayak Jack said:
Maybe it's just me, don't know? :?: Carry on.

Yep must be you since this section has nothing to do with the rest of the forum , Just like all of the posts in the General section especially in the hijacking thread..... Boy's will be Boy's or so they say. :lol:

Both are a place to blow / vent off some steam and keep your sanity with out it running / bleeding over into other sections where everyone likes to visit and enjoy. Or want to have them as a reference point for that particularity subject....... Dam , I learned a new word .... particularity. :wink: :wink:

A person does not have to look here to get the information they want , just like the General section where all the small chatter / talk has nothing to do with the general idea of why we are here , sort of a chat around area at the best.

To answer your statement or almost question.... Yep , we are taking a new direction. Two areas to go to and have some insanity in while the rest , something better for everyone without all the off of the subject chatter.

Just read what the thread or idea for that section is about and go from there , don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure this out. :roll: :roll:

If this section and the General section bugs you that much ... I can get rid of them really quick. Now if the politics of what is going on does not bother you , you are a better person then a lot of us since a lot of us thinks it stinks or you are really naive and living in a cave.
( Or out of touch with reality and the understanding of where this government is trying to take us , it is frighting to put it mildly ) :D

Chuck.......

Let me add this thought, If you do not want Obamacare and it gets passed then your gross salary will be taxed 2.5 %. while you pay for private insurance out of your pocket. Just one of nasty little secrets they do not want you to know about.

This sort of says it all......
MFT20090825.jpg
 

Jimmy W

Well-Known Member
May 1, 2006
611
1
north georgia, USA
oldsparkey said:
Just read what the thread or idea for that section is about and go from there , don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure this out. :roll: :roll:
The Geezer Corner Cafe'
Falling apart an the Doc had to fix it , lets us know about the repairs.
This doesn't seem to be about a Doc doing repairs to anyone.
oldsparkey said:
Let me add this thought, If you do not want Obamacare and it gets passed then your gross salary will be taxed 2.5 %. while you pay for private insurance out of your pocket. Just one of nasty little secrets they do not want you to know about.
From what I have read, this bill is still being debated. There is some talk of doing away with the government insurance part. How do you already know what the final bill will be?

Jimmy
 

gbinga

Well-Known Member
Nov 7, 2008
736
2
Hoschton, GA
Jimmy W said:
From what I have read, this bill is still being debated. There is some talk of doing away with the government insurance part. How do you already know what the final bill will be?Jimmy

That's a fair question.

First of all, look back to the stimulus bills. They were passed in a hurry. They told us it was an emergency. That it had to be done right now so as to save the economy. I don't think I am far off base in saying that was a couple of outright lies. Stinking, baldfaced lies. The majority of the money was not even scheduled for expenditure this year. How can that be an emergency? And the bill was infested with pork spending and left wing agenda pieces that have nothing to do with stimulating the economy. Items that may or may not have been valid ideas, depending upon your point of view, but which were not economic stimulus and were not emergencies.

And they passed those massive bills in a hurry, with minimal or non-existent opportunity for public review.

Now they are doing everything they are able to do to ram through "health care reform". Or "health insurance reform", or whatever the democrats (who used to refer to themselves as "socialists" and then started calling themselves
"liberals" until people figured out what that meant so they started referring to themselves as "progressives")
want to call it this week. Every week we get a new deadline, a new goal, a promise to get this done by such and such date.

The reason this is an "emergency" is that if they wait until next year, an election year, they know damn well they won't get it done, because what majority they have in the senate and house is mostly comprised of "blue dog" democrats who know better than to vote for something that their constituents don't want, in an election year.

Getting back to your actual question, we don't know what will be in the final bill. And if the democrat leadership has their way about it, we won't know what's in it until after they have already voted on it.

And that is the point.

George
 

gbinga

Well-Known Member
Nov 7, 2008
736
2
Hoschton, GA
Now I'm gonna go take my medication and a nap. :)

By the way, Jimmy, I want you to know that I appreciate the intelligent and thoughtful way that you speak your mind. It must be pretty lonely in here when it comes to politics. I'm glad you speak up, though.

I also want to say that I'll be the first to admit that the Republican party made more than its' fair share of stupid decisions in the last few years, which makes it easy to understand how they got their shiftless butts handed to them on a stick in the last two election cycles.

George
 

gbinga

Well-Known Member
Nov 7, 2008
736
2
Hoschton, GA
Kayak Jack said:
Jimmy does add some purity to a conversation, doesn't he. Kinda takes an edge off some of the rants.

Keeps us honest. Wouldn't learn much if it was just a bunch of right wing NRA members sitting around agreeing with each other. :) We need somebody around to remind us that it's all a matter of opinion.

GBinGA
 

Jimmy W

Well-Known Member
May 1, 2006
611
1
north georgia, USA
I wrote the following last night but wasn't satisfied with it. Will post it anyway.

oldsparkey said:
Let me add this thought, If you do not want Obamacare and it gets passed then your gross salary will be taxed 2.5 %. while you pay for private insurance out of your pocket. Just one of nasty little secrets they do not want you to know about.
The bill as it was drafted did call for a tax on persons without a qualified insurance plan. The tax is supposed to be high enough to persuade people to get insurance. No percentage was specified, it could be much higher or lower than 2.5%. Health insurance plans in existence before the law would not have to meet the new insurance standards.

All health insurance would be required to have guaranteed issue and renewal, modified community rating, no exclusions for pre-existing conditions, no lifetime or annual limits on benefits, and family policies would have to cover “children” up to age 26.
These conditions would make the new insurance very expensive.

I copied the quote above from Keith Hennessey at http://keithhennessey.com/2009/06/08/kennedy-health-bill/
As he said this was from the draft Senate bill as it was leaked in June. It isn't a secret. No one knows now what the final bill will include or just how they plan on paying for it. As we have been doing for years, we will probably just borrow more from the Chinese and anyone else who will loan it to us and let some future generation worry about paying it back. We sure as heck don't want to pay the taxes to pay for what we get.
They say that we Americans pay more for health care now than anywhere else and we don't live longer for it. The price of health care has been increasing faster than anything else. Something will have to be done someday and some will be upset about whatever is done, but I'm not convinced that we need to rush into something before the end of this year.
 

oldsparkey

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2003
10,479
123
Central , Florida
www.southernpaddler.com
Jimmy W said:
From what I have read, this bill is still being debated. There is some talk of doing away with the government insurance part. How do you already know what the final bill will be?

Jimmy

Good Point , I have no idea what the final bill will be or even if there will be one. I feel safe in saying that is probably the same thought in Washington.
The part that scares me is the thing is thicker then a metropolis phone book and the only knowledge of it is by the individuals who wrote it and they probably only know about what they contributed to it.
What is really scary is they want to run everything from car sales to health care and they can't even govern themselves. Reminds me of a committee that designed a horse and it looked like a camel when they were done. :lol:

Chuck.
I'm waiting for them to suggest they need to pass it as a memorial to Ted Kennedy. If that happens then all of us will be in the same deep water as Mary Jo Kopechne was.
 

oldyaker

Well-Known Member
Aug 26, 2003
1,949
31
No doubt health care needs looked at because of cost. GUV'MINT WILL NOT REDUCE THE COST OF HEALTHCARE!!! GUV'MINT DRIVES UP THE COST OF EVERYTHING IT GETS IT HANDS ON!!!!!!!! :twisted: It will be cheaper for the ones who are already not paying for it (because it's already free) and make it more expensive for the ones paying for it in the form of new taxes!!!Guv'Mint is part of the problem, not the solution. GET RID OF 99% of AMBULANCE CHASERS for one idea!
It took longer for this guy to pick a dog for his family than it did to try and push a massive health care bill threw!

When people fear the government, it's tyranny......When the government fear the people, it's liberty!
 

a Bald Cypress

Well-Known Member
May 7, 2007
577
0
81
Northwest Louisiana
Might as well weigh in on this one.

Do not forget, if you work for a company that does have a health insurance plan and ]to keep it easy] it coats the company say $100.00 per person. When the Company says HEY we can save $50.00 a person by canx. the health benefits, then get the Govt. run system . Guess what happens to your coverage.

All that GOOD ins. You had with the Company is now gone and you are left to “choose” whichever plan uncle sam wants you to have. And pay for it yourself.

It is also my guess that your current pay scale takes into effect some portion of the amount the Co. pays for your health ins. After the co. cancels that ins. , want to bet your paycheck won’t go up to reflect the savings to the employer ?.
:twisted:
 

gbinga

Well-Known Member
Nov 7, 2008
736
2
Hoschton, GA
Jimmy W said:
No one knows now what the final bill will include or just how they plan on paying for it. As we have been doing for years, we will probably just borrow more from the Chinese and anyone else who will loan it to us and let some future generation worry about paying it back. We sure as heck don't want to pay the taxes to pay for what we get.

I think I speak for many of us in saying that we don't want to pay more taxes for something we don't want. And I repeatedly hear things that make me think they will try to ram through a health care reform bill without the public having a chance to review it.

Jimmy W said:
They say that we Americans pay more for health care now than anywhere else and we don't live longer for it.

We have a serious problem with violent crime in our country. It is rooted in narcotics laws and various social problems. Our murder rate is outlandish compared to the rest of the world. If you filter out deaths due to violent crime, there is nothing wrong with our life expectancy. Violent crime is a serious problem in those particular communities affected by it, but that has nothing to do with health care. It's a red herring, like the alleged 50 million uninsured people figure that includes illegal aliens.

As to cost, how about:
-serious tort reform so that doctors aren't exposed to frivolous lawsuits from lawyers who are willing to take a shot because the payoff is so huge. Our civil courts should not be lottery for shysters. Start by limiting punitive damages to an amount no larger than actual damages. Then consider a "loser pays" system where if you bring a stupid baseless lawsuit and lose, you have to pay the defendant's legal fees. (try getting that past a democrat congress and the bar association)
-increase the number of doctors. Accomplish this by providing incentives and scholarships. The kind of money we're talking about, you could send a lot of people to school. More doctors, lower cost. Basic economics. ("progressives" would rather spend the money on a single payer plan that puts the government in control and makes people even more dependent on big brother than they already are)
-make more medical care available by way of nurses and nurse practitioners. (The AMA would scream bloody murder. As far as I'm concerned they could join the American Bar Association down at the nearest beach, pounding sand up their...never mind)


Jimmy W said:
Something will have to be done someday and some will be upset about whatever is done, but I'm not convinced that we need to rush into something before the end of this year.

I suspect (I'm gonna quit pretending to be a mind reader) that the reason they want to get it done this year is they don't think there is a chance in Hell of getting it done in an election year. And between the economy, the anger over health care/bailouts/stimulus, and the normal midterm election pattern, they probably aren't going to have quite as commanding a majority in 2011 as they do now.

George
 

Jimmy W

Well-Known Member
May 1, 2006
611
1
north georgia, USA
I already said too much. I was a biology major in college, I would rather talk about snakes. Actually, I would rather to go back to the days when this forum advised against talking about politics and religion.
 

Paddlin'Gator

Well-Known Member
Feb 2, 2008
148
0
Tequesta, FL
I have been observing all the ranting and raving about health care in the media, at town hall meetings and here on the forum for a while and have a few suggestions to quiet it down, at least for a while. (1) Get the hated government out of the issue, totally, as in NO REGULATION. (2) Ditch the "socialist" programs medicare and medicaid and stop deducting 7.65% from everybody's pay checks. (3) Allow employers to offer insurance to employees if they choose to, or not, but not allow them to write it off as an expense to level the field for the self employed and small businesses. (4) Let the insurance companies operate as they see fit without government interference (spelled "regulation"). In other words we will all be on our own in our best tradition of every man for himself. Our founding fathers would be proud - back to our principles.
 

gbinga

Well-Known Member
Nov 7, 2008
736
2
Hoschton, GA
Kayak Jack said:
Jimmy W said:
...Actually, I would rather to go back to the days when this forum advised against talking about politics and religion.
I agree with that. It is wise advice.

Actually, I understand that feeling too. It wouldn't bug me too much if Chuck prohibited politics.

But politics do come up, and unless the rules change, I'm gonna play along with everyone else. What I will do, or try to remember to do, is to tag my posts as "(political)" if that's what they are. That way if you are sick of politics (I get that way myself), or if you are just sick of MY politics :p, you can just ignore it.

By the way, Jack, it seems to me that we completely hijacked your thread. (IMAGINE a thing like that happening in here!!!)

Sorry 'bout that.

George
 

oldsparkey

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2003
10,479
123
Central , Florida
www.southernpaddler.com
Well , Jack did his thing with a good thought and then followed up with a challenge and a miss direction , then a Who , not Me.

I can not understand his complaint against this idea , or anyone else who joined in ( Willingly) as a participating party to that complaint. I underlined the part I do not think he understands....It is explained in my following explination...:roll:
******************************************************************************************************************************************
If you have forgotten ...........
A New Direction?

Postby Kayak Jack » Thu Aug 27, 2009 6:04 pm
I'm wondering, why we've wandered off into this direction of complaining about politics? It's interesting to some, and maybe to many. But, it sure is a departure from boats and camping and fishing etc. And, it's starting to sound a bit like just olde fartes pi$$ing and moaning and whining.

Maybe it's just me, don't know? :?: Carry on.

*******************************************************************************************************************************************

If you have not noticed , when something along this threads line posts something in any other section it is moved here ........ HOW MUCH SIMPLER IS THAT.
DO NOT LOOK HERE IF IT OFFENDS YOU...

I have to agree , we should never discuss politics or religion on here but the times and days are different then they use to be and since so many folks are really ticked off about the government this is a good place to vent that frustration.

I was thinking of trashing this section but I am convinced it needs to stay and with a warning .... Look at the thought then ......Don't enter if you don't like the subject matter

After all we are adults and can make our own decisions or so I like to think.

Besides in this section we discuss , Eye Surgery , Diarrhea , Dysentery , Colon Oscilloscopes , Heart Problems , By passes , Stints , Root Canals , ear infections , Gas , Body Oder ( good or bad) and all of the rest of the fun things associated with getting older , Even some life and death matters , at times..... Like Health Care. :D
As far as I can understand it none of them have a Dam thing to do with building boats , just about us falling apart at the seams while trying to enjoy life.


Chuck.
PS. Please correct me if I am wrong..... Company , At Ease and ...DISMISSED :lol:
 

Kayak Jack

Well-Known Member
Aug 26, 2003
13,976
171
86
Okemos / East Lansing Michigan
Chuck, you have no need to get defensive. I asked a question, no challenge or misdirection.

It's obvious that complaining about politics has hit a nerve, and seems to be fulfilling a need. When we discuss our ailments, it is usually a discussion that bonds us, because we all share something in the ailment department. God knows most of us do, anyway.

Politics can be divisive; it hasn't been much so far, but it is a mine field for discussions. I've said three times, now, carry on.