2 new toys | SouthernPaddler.com

2 new toys

oldsparkey

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2003
10,479
123
Central , Florida
www.southernpaddler.com
The Sawyer is one really good water filter , there is one in my backpack.
In fact I even used some bits and pieces of other water items to make it into a gravity feed with a large water container as the dirty water holder and water supply to run threw the filter.
 

jdupre'

Well-Known Member
Sep 9, 2007
2,327
40
South Louisiana
Piper and I used our Sawyers last week on a camping trip. Really easy to use and small and convenient to pack. They made some slighty muddy water come out clear and tasty.

Joey
 

FlaMike

Well-Known Member
Jun 20, 2007
624
2
Spring Hill, FL
www.ptponds.com
Great water filters, no doubt.

Still, I'd use one to "clarify" the water, and then boil it.

That's as close to 100% safe as you can get, short of distillation. These filters will keep a virus from paying you a visit. Boiling will.

If you are traveling on the water, you don't really have to worry so much about the weight you are taking with you, like you would when backpacking. In that case, a small still would be easy to put together.

You might even be able to come up with some other uses for it, too! :D

Mike S.
Spring Hill, FL
 

FlaMike

Well-Known Member
Jun 20, 2007
624
2
Spring Hill, FL
www.ptponds.com
Well, you could call it JP4, they might believe you. . .

Or just go with, "A little night cap." :D

Take a look at this video. Warning: The guy in the vid is sometimes known as the "Mr. Rogers of the Survival Set." I'm pretty sure he is quite mad. But he does come up with some interesting and sometimes even good stuff. The first video contains some very important info that kind of gets lost in the second one. But the second one shows an improved version of the still. That's why I'm posting both links.

First video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqMCJkZ ... H64CuQjC7g

And the "new and improved" version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSXg_DM ... H64CuQjC7g

Mike S.
Spring Hill, FL
 

Kayak Jack

Well-Known Member
Aug 26, 2003
13,976
171
87
Okemos / East Lansing Michigan
Observations:
1. Original still is imaginative. Seems a complicated solution to a simpler problem?
2. Wet rag would be more effective in cooling the tube, if wrapped along length of coil instead of lain over just one section with long tails hanging loose.
3. Burned enough fuel to just carry same weight of water
4. Advantage of "improved" still, was neither obvious, nor explained
5. While distillation separates liquids from solids, it only separates liquids from other liquids with widely varying boiling points. If two or more liquids with similar boiling points are commingled, they don't separate cleanly via distillation.

Mike, thanks for showing us other approaches. I also reviewed videos anout a Dakota hole, and tapping tree sap to fill a canteen.
 

FlaMike

Well-Known Member
Jun 20, 2007
624
2
Spring Hill, FL
www.ptponds.com
Like I said, the guy's a little bit wacky, but he is out there doing the work, making the effort. I admire that.

No one solution really completely addresses the water processing problems found in today's world. As far as I can tell, a combination of mechanical/chemical filtration, boiling and distillation is what's needed.

The mechanical/chemical filtration, your Sawyer device being an excellent one, takes care of most of the biological issues, but NOT down to the virus levels. And there are some chemicals that carbon filters, or combination carbon/bentonite filters will not remove. These are short-term solutions that need to be replaced from time to time. For camping, that really isn't a problem.

Boiling will kill the virus, when other methods fail.

Distillation will remove salts. I don't think the above filters will do that. And it can be done in conjunction with the boiling. Kind of a "two-fer-one" deal.

As for the fuel expenditure, if I really need to use water found along the way, then I'll use fuel found along the way to boil the water. No need to carry fuel from home, or it's weight in water.

His use of the condenser coil vertically makes sense, lay it on it's side and water collects in the coils on the down side. Cooling the coil like he does makes sense to me, the coil is where the majority of the surface area is that needs cooling. That's why its coiled in the first place.

Exactly how his "improved" version really helps, I'm not so sure. If it in fact does, I kind of doubt that its enough of a difference to make it worth the effort. He did say in the comments section of YouTube something about the extra parts in the improved version keeping the condenser coils cleaner. (?) Maybe some added protection from a boil over? (Don't know.)

I can see where people who don't have a lot of saltwater around might not want to bother with a still. But for those of us who are practically surrounded by the stuff, it makes good sense. Not sure if there is any place in Florida where you are more than 35 to 40 miles from saltwater.

And if anyone should wonder, yes, you CAN "over-purify" water. So a "perfect" system isn't really something you want. I think I'll make an "imperfect" version of the one this guy build. Probably very close to the one in his first video.

And come to think of it, I do believe I read of a still made using a lard can was the hero of at least one little episode in the reading I've done on the Gladesmen Culture. In Glen Simmons' book, I think. And it was for producing drinkable water from the brackish stuff, too.

Mike S.
Spring Hill, FL
 

Kayak Jack

Well-Known Member
Aug 26, 2003
13,976
171
87
Okemos / East Lansing Michigan
The membrane method of desalinization is effective, but so far not practical for camping.

The improved still would catch particulate matter, similar to a sediment bowl fuel filter. It would also allow the exhaust stream to slow down, and then liquid drops would fall out of the gaseous steam. Both would be an advantage.

You're right, a vertical coil could be better. A caution here - he placed the coil - and the cooling rag he wetted with dirty water - directly above the receiving vessel. This allows contaminated drips from the rag to be too close to the receiver. The coil needs to be bent so there is a spur sticking out to the side where the receiver is protected.

When someone invents a filter that costs about $10 bucks, carries easily in a pocket, removes all contaminants from any water soutce, and cleans easily - she'll make a lot of money.

Going back to the video about boring into a tree and filling your canteen from the sap (maple or birch were recommended trees): he mentions that, because of natural sugars in the sap, it will start to ferment in a day or two. Add THAT info to your still ideas, and go from there, Mike. I leave it to your imagination.
 

Wannabe

Well-Known Member
Apr 5, 2007
2,645
2
on the bank of Trinity Bay
I have a water filtration system that will pull out anything down to .02 microns but it is too big for camping. It uses two five gal plastic buckets. The ceramic filter used might be able to be used in more portable containers. The 5 gal filter will make about 15 gal. of water a day and about 75 with pressure. They are available from Monolithic. They also have ready made camping filters.
http://www.alloutdoor.com/2013/10/22/mo ... on-system/
http://www.monolithic.org/water-filters ... o-your-ngo
Bob
 

oldsparkey

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2003
10,479
123
Central , Florida
www.southernpaddler.com
We don't have a real virus worries here in the states that is more overseas type of worry. Our main troublemakers are the Bacteria.
There is one other thing to think about and that is the good old pesticides and chemicals the ranchers and farmers along with commercial factories dump in the water system. You need a carbon filter to capture them.

The best water filtration system is between a persons ears and called a brain. If the water looks wrong and especially if it smells bad then find some somewhere else. The up side is you have no idea what you are drinking from the tap at home of from any of the bottled water from a processor.

Camping , I will filter mine unless it is right out of one of our springs :D Any water used for cooking either filtered or if it looks OK then just boiled for hydrating a meal or making office.
Remember one thing , if you take your mug and dip up the water , then pour it in a pot to boil it and back in the mug for a hot drink the rim of the mug still has all the germs on it from the water and is not disinfected.
They say a roiling boil is not necessary , just get it up to a boil is plenty to kill off the germs.
 

FlaMike

Well-Known Member
Jun 20, 2007
624
2
Spring Hill, FL
www.ptponds.com
For the most part, I do NOT worry so much about water when camping. Most of my camping is done from a boat. I keep on hand from 3 to 5 heavy plastic one gallon jugs. (Formerly, Arizona Green Tea jugs.(Nice, thick-walled ones.) So I do have plenty of water for several days, not counting melted ice in the cooler. (After my 3 day, 2 night Everglades trip, I had about a gallon and a half of water left over.)

Water from a spring, I'll usually drink without any sort of treatment. Water at my house is untreated, direct from a well. No different than spring water. Makes the best coffee and tea, too! :D

Backpacking, I'd probably go with one of the Sawyer filters, as well as a couple of square feet of clear plastic for a solar still. Nothing elaborate.

On the boat, I will be carrying a still for making saltwater drinkable, if I'm going camping anywhere near saltwater.

I also have it on good authority that most adult beverages are pretty much germ free, so they should be considered as "survival stores." :mrgreen:

Mike S.
Spring Hill, FL
 

catfish

Well-Known Member
Feb 7, 2007
996
3
jesup, ga.
sparky I agree with you we probably need to be concerned more of the pesticides and chemicals than Ebola. sad to say probably cancer or a heart attack will get me before Ebola. yea your right about the brain thing(common sense). i agree with you and fla Mike about the well thing. we don't know what we are drinking? :( :shock: :x if we did that would probably kill us . all i know is the water from my well is good especially when it is hot or in some tea or coffee. :D :mrgreen:

around here i usually can carry my water when camping . i guess when and if i go in the okee I might need one of the purifiers'

KY jack you aint right. :lol: :lol:
 

FlaMike

Well-Known Member
Jun 20, 2007
624
2
Spring Hill, FL
www.ptponds.com
No prices on web site? Have to call to order?

I already know what a bargain the Sawyer filter systems are.

Really can't say anything about the one in the link above, just don't like their sales approach. So, I'll most likely be picking up a Sawyer filter for freshwater treatment, and some odds 'n ends for a still for saltwater conversion.

Mike S.
Spring Hill, FL
 

Wannabe

Well-Known Member
Apr 5, 2007
2,645
2
on the bank of Trinity Bay
Chuck,
99% are stopped. 1% gets through. Might be nice to know exactly what virus strains gets through. That info could make a difference.
Bob

Bob , Chuck here... I sure hope that 1% are friendly ones. :lol: