Marsh Pirogue (almost)

[beekeeper]

Started this pirogue a few weeks ago. This is the last day I will have with a computer for a while that I can post pictures from. I'm going to try to post some by groups, at different times today and will be able to comment on them latter. Chuck if this is not suitable please delete them and I will try again latter.
My intentions were for it to have the lines and features of a "marsh" pirogue. Not sure I will reach those goals entirely.
This is the sides spread by the jigs. The smaller clamps are holding a short plywood batten I used to stiffen the sides. They are 5 mm and pretty limber to work with.

 

[beekeeper]

Installed the chine logs. They are sawed 32 deg. to flair the sides enough.

After drying they have to be planned/sanded level to fit the floor.

 

[beekeeper]

Made the stem pieces out of 3/4" stock to save weight. Did not work because it split when nailing in place. Careful grain orientation may prevent this. I just made new ones from 2X4 and cut away excess wood. They worked better with only a few ounces of weight gain.

Pictures out of order. I installed the floor before the stems. Used the trim bit in my router. This left little sanding to do.

Installed inside gunnels to support the tumblehome panels. I wanted a change in styles and was not going to use tumblehome sides. The 5mm ply is just not stiff enough to work with gunnels alone.

 

[beekeeper]

Determined the size and height of the TH supports. I also had to install a floor rib/backing over the splice. When making the scarff joint I discovered a void and had to convert to a butt joint.

 

[beekeeper]

I used plywood for the panels and made the splices over the supports. This causes some waste, but is stronger than having the splice between supports.

 

[oldsparkey]

A nice photo record of the build , Looking forward to the rest.

 

[oldbuffpilot]

A nice photo record of the build , Looking forward to the rest.

I used plywood for the panels and made the spices over the supports. This causes some waste, but is stronger than having the splice between supports.
View attachment 1742

 

[oldbuffpilot]

Thanks for taking the time to post, we realize it takes some effort. I have some knowledge to gain with questions.... I'll ease into them one a a time. How did you "set" the rocker? was it predetermined?

 

[beekeeper]

Thanks for taking the time to post, we realize it takes some effort. I have some knowledge to gain with questions.... I'll ease into them one a a time. How did you "set" the rocker? was it predetermined?

"predetermined" only in general terms. My last boat was built to very specific dimensions because I was trying to milk all I could from the size and shape. I did reference the last boat's sides as a starting point. The idea for rocker was to keep it between 1" and 2" for each end. It came out at 1.5" for both. I was pleased.
Hard to describe total process, but basically placed the side panels on the table and drew the arch. This one worked out to be 4" about 8" behind center (widest beam). I started at 3.5". Spread the sides on the forms and measure rocker. Remove from forums and cut more, if needed. Baby steps until you get what you want. If you are not married to specific beam or floor width the forms can be moved or adjusted to change the rocker.

 

[oldbuffpilot]

"predetermined" only in general terms. My last boat was built to very specific dimensions because I was trying to milk all I could from the size and shape. I did reference the last boat's sides as a starting point. The idea for rocker was to keep it between 1" and 2" for each end. It came out at 1.5" for both. I was pleased.
Hard to describe total process, but basically placed the side panels on the table and drew the arch. This one worked out to be 4" about 8" behind center (widest beam). I started at 3.5". Spread the sides on the forms and measure rocker. Remove from forums and cut more, if needed. Baby steps until you get what you want. If you are not married to specific beam or floor width the forms can be moved or adjusted to change the rocker.

I see, same technique you passed on to me about this time last year. It worked great... just had to sneak up on it a few times!

 

[oldbuffpilot]

I see, same technique you passed on to me about this time last year. It worked great... just had to sneak up on it a few times!

J D I am always curious, Still on a search for a lighter weight boat that younger kids can make. Is this the 5mm plywood with exterior glue? do you think it would be strong enough built uncle johns style, ie with gusseted ribs and plywood butt joints with scabs over the joints. trying to cut down on build time and epoxy exposure. I also like your pictures, I resize my pics... but when I post they go to full screen, It is the resized and cropped picture but full screen I'd welcome suggestions from anybody.

 

[beekeeper]

I have never built an UJ pirogue but have built without epoxy/glass. The 5mm and 9mm both have exterior rated glue. The three boats I have built using 9mm for the floor and 5mm for the sides are 13" long with floors 24" to 28" wide. They tend to weigh between 40lbs. and 45lbs. I would assume a "young kid" would not be going alone and would have help carrying and loading the boat. Not sure I would risk using 5mm for the floor without glassing. You would only save a couple lbs.
My grandson's boat (https://www.southernpaddler.com/community/threads/grandsons-boat.7716/) had 9mm floor and sides it worked fine for him on the water and he was only seven.
Your plans for ribs and splices seems doable to me. If you use the 5mm in the floor I would considering adding more ribs, at least in the floor.
If you are set on using UJ's plans and dimensions considering just adding a exterior chine log to the sides and fastening the bottom to it. This will allow you to build without any epoxy or fiberglass. May not be the most efficient hull but the kids will not notice.
Another option to consider would be a "Herb Cottle"s 17 lb. pirogue". I believe you built one with your grandson. Replace the metal / epoxy with the plywood, screws and wood glue.

 

[oldsparkey]

I have built several Uncle Johns Pirogues with 1/8th inch door skins. To regress a bit , my 1st one was with 1/4 luann and came out to heavy for what I wanted. All the others were 1/8th inch door skins.
1st they were butt jointed with glass and epoxy on both sides of the joints , about a 6 inch wide strip , then the whole boat was epoxy saturated before being completely glassed. Epoxy saturating helps to seal the wood and it also gives the finishing layer of glass and epoxy something to attach to. ( it should be done within 48 hours from the saturation process and to a clean NON oily or dirty surface ).
One word of warning if you do any epoxy saturation. Do it when the temperature is decreasing not increasing. Increasing temperatures will cause air to leave the wood creating small bubbles in the epoxy before it cures. Decreasing temperature will draw air in not letting any bubbles to happen.

Chuck.

 

[beekeeper]

After attaching the panels to the sides and supports I shaped and trimed them.

Two strips were glued to the inside edges of the panels to make the combing, and outside gunnels were added.

 

[beekeeper]

Another floor rib was added. This actually stiffened the sides. When the sides were stressed the floor would flex/bend. After the rib was installed the floor would not flex and the sides did not move. Interesting to me how all parts and features interact in boats.

Added two batter boards and breast hooks. I used a hand plane to flush the boards to the sides. This works faster than the sander.

 

[beekeeper]

Used the rabbet plane to clean up the combing strips. Almost the shape/lines I was building for. The tumblehome shoulders and supports take away from the flared open look of a marsh pirogue. I think stiffer wood is needed. Close enough for me.

 

[jdupre']

Nice. A little different, but your style is recognizable.

 

[oldbuffpilot]

Looks like your boat. Is that a spud hole through the deck? Is the floor painted or a coating

 

[beekeeper]

I had intentions of this one being different. The sides were flared to about 32 deg. so the boat could have a more open look. The 5mm luan was not ridged enough to work without some kind of reinforcement. I did not want the look of ribs or beefed up gunnels so for me the tumblehome shoulder worked best. I will try to do better next time.

The floor has truck bed liner coating inside and the bottom is coated with Goop Coat It. The hole is not a spud hole, just a handy tie down feature if needed.

 

[beekeeper]

My son and I finally were able to make a fishing trip. He used the marsh pirogue and I took my "Bayoy Dorcheat" pirogue. The fishing was not spectacular but we enjoyed the trip and learned some things about the new boat.
Our standard 8" tall chair is too high. The boat was too tipsy sitting at this height, not "turn over" unstable but not comfortable for casting and other fishing activities. Not much concern when paddling but the boat will benefit from a lower seat.