Using Uncle Johns Pirogue in bay systems

[4x4kayak2112]

I have been lurking around here for a while and decided to jump into the boat builiding scene, but i have a little issue:

I really like the UJ kit, but i fish the bays around east TX/ west LA about 90% of the time, will the UJ be good for fishing the bay or should i look for a better type of boat, im planning on building it 15'8'' and 31'' wide. I want something that i can put the kid in and also use it for camping, but i just dont know how the flat bottom will ride in the bays.

 

[Steve]

4x4;

the UJ pirouge should be alright in the shallows and would probably fair real well in GOOD weather on a waterway like Sabine lake, but the water CAN get pretty treacherous for a pirouge, even on Sabine Lake. But in the salt marshes fishing for specks and reds, it would be a good choice. . . .

BTW, where you located?

 

[Wannabe]

4x4,
Don't think it strange that someone fron I de ho is giving advise on saltwater flats fishing. Steve is no stranger to Sabine Lake and a lot of other places.
Bob

 

[4x4kayak2112]

im located in houston, i need a boat that will handle it.....any ideas out there

 

[Wannabe]

4x4,
I have spent many a year on the Galveston Bay Complex in the oil field running crewboats and tugboats. You do not want to take a pirogue type paddlecraft out in the open bay. That is a disaster waiting to happen. Paddlecraft are just fine close to shore or in protected flats.Things can get ugly quickly and you need to be able to get to safety. Lord knows there are plenty of places to use a paddlecraft around here. Around Cedar Bayou. Dickenson Bayou. Anahuac area. West Bay. Christmas Bay. Take your pick. Any boat you want to build could be used in many places in this area, This part of the Texas Gulf Coast has something for everybody. Don't have a boat. You can wade fish bout anywhere. So pick a boat you think you will like and build it( with plenty of pictures) and go fish. :mrgreen:
Bob

 

[oldsparkey]

For all piratical purposes a Pirogue is not an open water boat , it is a back water and river boat for shallow water use. Folks around here do use them in open water but only in blue bird weather when it is calm , not stormy times or really rough water. Some even have there big boats rigged to carry one on them for the shallow water fishing when the other boat gets them there.

The only paddle craft I know of that will handle rough water is a sea kayak.

Not knowing the water you would be paddling , listen to the guys who know the area and if you wanted to you might ask Uncle John if he knows anyone in your area using a pirogue and see if you can contact them for suggestions. The more information you can get the easier it will be to decide on which way to go.

If you decide to build a pirogue and it is not right for the water you are thinking about then you would have a boat for fishing other water in the area while you make the one for the water you are thinking about fishing. Whew , that is as clear as mud , Right. :lol:

Chuck.

 

[Steve]

4x4;

Been doin' some thinkin' on this. . . Chuck's right. . . a good sea kayak would handle the chop better. . . Now, since you plan to have the boy with you, you might consider a SOT, providing you're not planning on getting out in the channel with the big boys. . . You might talk to Matt about it he may be able to come up with a design for ya that could work. . .

Now I have used a pirouge in the surf, just off of Crystal Beach and over by High Island, where Shorty's Longest Pier used to be back in the seventies. . . to get out between the underwater sand bars to fish for the big ones. . . A fun thing to ride in on some of the waves, but it's one of those don't get too far out type of things, ya know?. . . Of course, there were a few times, that was not the smartest thing I coulda done. . .

BTW, I'm originally from the Beaumont, Port Arthur and Orange area. . .

 

[oldsparkey]

4x4;

Been doin' some thinkin' on this. . . Chuck's right. . . a good sea kayak would handle the chop better. . . Now, since you plan to have the boy with you, you might consider a SOT, providing you're not planning on getting out in the channel with the big boys. . . You might talk to Matt about it he may be able to come up with a design for ya that could work. . .

Now I have used a pirouge in the surf, just off of Crystal Beach and over by High Island, where Shorty's Longest Pier used to be back in the seventies. . . to get out between the underwater sand bars to fish for the big ones. . . A fun thing to ride in on some of the waves, but it's one of those don't get too far out type of things, ya know?. . . Of course, there were a few times, that was not the smartest thing I coulda done. . .

BTW, I'm originally from the Beaumont, Port Arthur and Orange area. . .

Tossing some ideas around , this boat will take extra time to complete due to the construction of it........ More panels to make it then a Pirogue.
Matt designed a SOT ( Sit On Top ) for two people ........ It is 17feet x 33 inches.

If you are interested here is the link to the conception and the building of it , three pages all with good information and lots of pictures. Not sure about the camping part of it ( the amount of gear you take ) with the SOT but for fishing it is a good choice.
http://www.jemwatercraft.com/forum/view ... f=8&t=2862

Chuck.

 

[oldsparkey]

I have been lurking around here for a while and decided to jump into the boat builiding scene, but i have a little issue:

I really like the UJ kit, but i fish the bays around east TX/ west LA about 90% of the time, will the UJ be good for fishing the bay or should i look for a better type of boat, im planning on building it 15'8'' and 31'' wide. I want something that i can put the kid in and also use it for camping, but i just dont know how the flat bottom will ride in the bays.

......Just some suggestions and thinks to think about.........

No one has said anything about this so I guess I should.
You can stretch out a pirogue with the 4th rib , it widens the middle of the boat and adds a lot of stability to it. You can also increase the height of the sides. You can build it just about anyway you want it built. I made one at 18 feet and trimmed the stern so it was 17 feet with a square stern.
With one of the seats I dreamed up ( Uncle John sells the plans for them as you know ) you sit low in the boat adding a lower center of gravity , even with the modifications it is still not a rough water boat.
A lot of that also depends on the paddlers experience in paddle boats but no one should be out in rough water ( If they can help it ) unless the boat was made for those type of conditions.

As far as camping , the pirogues I have take all my gear and I like an open boat , it is easier to get the gear in and out of it , that is just me.

The typical pirogue is rocky to a person who has never been in one but a couple of times paddling it and it becomes normal to the person. Think of it this way , the pirogue is the middle boat , it is wider then a kayak and narrower then a canoe on the average , not considering the specialty boats.
I like to tell folks that when they get in it the 1st time to do it in shallow water and wear a bathing suit... Paddle it and then try leaning it to the point where it will not swamp water over the sides , this way they get a good feel about what the boat will do.

From the For What it is Worth Section.... I was told a long time ago the thing that makes a boat flip on you is not the boat but the person in it. I have had a couple flip on me and ...YES ... it was my fault , not the boats. The last one was a friends of mine fault and really simple ... Don't run up on a Gator , especially if they are a good size one , they will flip you everytime while getting out of Dodge. He wanted to see how fast his motor would make the canoe go and we found out , way to fast to miss a Gator. :lol:

Chuck.

 

[4x4kayak2112]

i have 3 sot kayaks, all ocean kayaks, plus two more sit in, they are nice but i want something that is lighter, faster, and longer. i will do alot of fishing around Anahuac, (north trinity bay) and if its not there, its the Baytown nature center, with the UJ. Around that area is mostly flats, but they are wide open flats. ive seen 10 ft jon boats out there, and i used to have a 12 footer and even my wilderness systems SINK feels more stable than that jon boat. my buddy has a UJ he built for the river, and fast, and pretty stable.

My wife said as soon as i sell one of my Oks she will let me build it.....

 

[Wannabe]

Let's see here. Now don"t I live in Anahuac? Hummm. :shock:
Bob

 

[Wannabe]

4x4
UJ's wouldbe fine between the River and channel. Could even go out in the flats on the west side of the river. Just dont venture too far out into open water. Things can change quickly.
Bob

 

[4x4kayak2112]

wannabe

i know them bays can change on ya fast, ive been out in flat calm bays, and then i turn around, and its black as the night, mind ya this was in a PB. One of my fav. spots are on the west side of the river, near a old oil rig, its about 1 mile NW out past the peninsula, on them flats on the other side of the channel. I also like to launch at McClellan (sp?) park and fish the spillway

I wonder why a pirogue isnt "bay worthy"? is it the the flat bottom? im planning on building mine with water tight compartments (no hatches up top) just like the one in the pic, my buddy (not the pic) has totally flooded his and it still floated good. his had water tight comparments, and he always carrys a pump for it just in-case.

 

[seedtick]

you can go out and come back in just about anything , even an innertube, just a matter of how wet you're willing to get

 

[tx river rat]

4+4
That looks like a boat from Gerald.
The flat bottom is rougher in waves than a multipanel,
I think most folks think of a perow as a open boat with no decks,the boat in the pic is a hybrid part canoe part kayak and part perow.
Ron

 

[4x4kayak2112]

tx river rat

Its actually seashells boat, i fell in love with it and really like it, i know it will be rougher ride, just like a PB,

i guess at the beginning i should of posted a pic, i even hear pirogue, i think of a open boat.

 

[islandpiper]

you can go out and come back in just about anything , even an innertube, just a matter of how wet you're willing to get

I'm a lot braver in an empty pirogue. with the 300 pounds of stuff i take out to feed Jdupre' in the swamp and keep him entertained I only have about 3" freeboard. And that dutch oven doesn't float too well.

As for getting wet, i'll vote for 100% wet in the shower every morning. I'll settle for 15% wet crossing Lake Verrett.

piper

 

[oldsparkey]

I'm sure I will get an argument on this but it works for me.

What ever boat you have and feel safe in it will work no matter what. It is knowing when to go or when to stay and if caught between the two but most of all ........... what the boat will do for you.

As the ole time saying goes , it is not the boat that causes the trouble it is the person paddling it. A boat set adrift will not capsize or sink ( Unless it is filled with rain water ) the thing that makes one flip or have problems is the person paddling it. Or in better words , a boat is only as good as the person in it , by itself it will make it.

I have been caught in some really nasty weather , the waves were so high that at times I could not see the person next to me while we paddled the canoes down in the Glades across an open bay. He was not more then 10 feet from me or I from him. We let them take the direction they wanted to go with the storm and finally made it to the next campsite. Not a good situation to be in but when you are half way between campsites there is not really a big choice in what to do. The up side is that the storm was behind us with all of the wind , rain and lighting. Yep...We made it across the bay in record time and got into a sheltered mangrove area. No choice that time , a 10 mile paddle and we were half way between campsites when that storm hit.

If things were reversed , there is no way we would of ever tried making it ( In a open boat ) just stayed where we were , which I have done more then one time down there.

A decked over sea kayak with a spray skirt attached ,that is a different story and it is a different type of boat made for those type of problems. I have taken it out on camping trip's when the guy's in the big Bass boats would not put them in the water.

To put it in a korny way ....... It is like playing poker....... Hopefully you either know when to hold them or to fold them.

Chuck.....
PS. I am not suggesting you do like I do since I know what works for me and not for you , always play it on the safe side , there is always tomorrow.