Questions before I start My first boat (pirogue)

[MyrtleBeachMike]

I've wanted to do it for years and this is the year. Start small, learn and progress right lads? I've searched and decided that Uncle John's is the easiest affordable route to take. I'll probably go with his ribs just for simplicities sake this being my first time. I'm down here in Myrtle Beach where we've got the Intracoastal Waterway, Murrell's inlet, rivers and lakes; the pirogue seems to be the best first step. Besides My Darling Mallory (granddaughter), who's 10 is coming to visit and I thought this would be a fun project.
I've been reading as much as I can, I've some construction experience, framing and finishing, feel like I've got the tools. Never glassed anything and of course never built a boat, I'm up for it. Time to fish or cut bait. Anyway, here we go. I understand scarf joints but the prevailing opinion on this forum is that but joints are simpler and as strong. What is the best method regarding this, I'm a little unsure I understand the wiring/threading method. I'm considering the 15.5' model and I'd like to do 11" sides so 2 full sheets of plywood. 1/4" seems too thin to big guy like me (230#) but my old canoe wasn't any thicker. Is 3/8" really necessary for the bottom? I'm planning to add a little keel for tracking and in addition to the inwales, adding some ferring or molding in 4" increments down the sides as well as some form of stripping for decking, thoughts? I saw some Cedar at HD is that an advisable material for a boat?
Of course Home Depot/Lowes doesn't have a terrific selection of wood, the 1/4" oak looks nice, I've read about teak luan and others but I just don't think I'll find it here. Anyway, first boat, let's get it done. I'd like to stain it rather than paint it if I can. Does the stain go on after the epoxy/resin, can it penetrate?
I've got lots of other questions but as the venerable Old Sparky says, the build is up to the builder. It's the basics I've got questions with, with the low cost I suppose I can make adjustments (i.e. decking, seats) as I go.
Sorry for running on but I'm excited to finally get off my but and do the thing I've been talking about for years...
1. scarf or butt? How best to do butt.
2. stain or paint? before or after fiberglass?
3. Additional struts/inwales, good idea?
4. stripping between ribs for decking/support, good or bad idea?
5. Recommended type of wood for ply and support.
6. Tips on where to get wood that's not simple clear pine structure.

thanks for your time, I can't wait to get this project underway....also curious what Miss Mallory will name her....perhaps Miss Mallory???

Regards and respect,
Mike

 

[rpecot]

1. scarf or butt? How best to do butt.
2. stain or paint? before or after fiberglass?
3. Additional struts/inwales, good idea?
4. stripping between ribs for decking/support, good or bad idea?
5. Recommended type of wood for ply and support.
6. Tips on where to get wood that's not simple clear pine structure.

1. I scarffed my joints. I would argue that a scarf joint is stronger than a butt joint. But with a fiberglass overlay, I would venture that the butt joint is strong enough.
2. Epoxy soaks into the wood and protects it from water intrusion. You don't want to inhibit that from occurring. Certainly, oil based paints will inhibit that from happening. Water based latex? Stains? I don't know. I would rather go with bare wood, then epoxy, then paint or varnish (to provide UV protection).
3. My UJ is 14.5' long. Three ribs. It's pretty stout. I didn't add inwales. I did add small decks on each end for a little added support.
4. I'm not sure what you're asking. I used 6 oz fiberglass, in and out. Like I said, it's pretty strong.
5. and 6. I went to the big box stores. Lowes, Home Depot. I used 4 or 5 mm Luan plywood. Red Oak for ribs, rub rails, decks. Nothing exotic. All pretty much "off the shelf."

 

[rpecot]

Ok, so I read the rest of you post.

I didn't do the "stitch" method. After I had my sides, ribs, and stems glued up, I glued the bottom to the sides and rib bottoms. Then I very gently turned it over and added a thickened epoxy fillet on the interior joints. After the epoxy cured, I felt a lot better working on the boat.

I know what you mean about the thin plys. I'm right at 250# and it just doesn't seem right, but after you glass everything, it really is a sturdy little boat. I wouldn't go jumping around in the thing, but for paddling around, even standing or walking front to back onto shore, it's fine.

Here's an example of bare luan, and epoxy soaked luan. It darkens up very nicely.

 

[oldsparkey]

Just some of my thoughts , for what they are worth...............

1. scarf or butt? How best to do butt.
I tried the scarf joint on the 1st pirogue and it keep breaking making the boat shorter and shorter , something I did not want to do. So some new wood and the butt joints. With them the boat stayed the length I wanted and I think they are just as strong. None of them have broken on me. I do glass over the seam on both sides and then fiberglass the boat on both sides. This gives two layers of glass over the seams and makes them quite strong.

2. stain or paint? before or after fiberglass?
The epoxy will stain the boat to a degree , deeping the wood tones. If you decide to stain it then use a WATER BASE STAIN and not an oil base. The oil base will not let the epoxy bond to the wood.

3. Additional struts/inwales, good idea?
Not really needed but that is up to the person building it since it will be there boat.

4. stripping between ribs for decking/support, good or bad idea?
Again , not really needed but depends on the way the builder wants to make his boat.

5. Recommended type of wood for ply and support.
Builders decision , I make mine from 1/4 luann for the 1st boat and thinner wood after that 1st one and they are still as good as the day I made them which was quite a few years ago.

6. Tips on where to get wood that's not simple clear pine structure.
I normally go to Home Depot and look threw the wood till I find a couple of sheets to my liking. Then I have them cut the wood for me. That's when I use the 1/4 inch wood. The 1/8th inch wood that most of them have been built from I get at a place that specialties in it. ( door trim )

You will save a lot of time by getting the kit from Uncle John since the ends and ribs have to be cut on specific angles in order for them to work properly.
At 230 pounds the 1/4 inch wood will be plenty for the whole boat , especially when it is glassed on both sides. In-fact the bow and stern pieces are recessed , cut , for a piece of 1/4 inch wood to fit in them , nice and flush.
There is no need to stitch and glue the pirogue if you don't want to , Uncle John instructions will tell you how to do that. Basically it is nothing more the strapping the bottom to the boat and epoxying it in place.

As far as the weight the boat will take , I'm 212 and when camping with the boat I use to have a good 100 pounds or more of stuff with me , The boat was packed full of gear. That's before I started packing lighter because I got tired of loading and unloading all of it every day. :roll: The pirogue was made with 1/8th inch wood so you can see that the 1/4 inch wood is plenty , especially for the 1st build.
They are or should I say that the building and paddling of them is quite addictive , sort of like potato chips , one is not enough.