New build for a youngster. Advice Requested.

[daniel77d]

I have built a couple of pirogues already, which have all been versions of the Uncle John's plan. Unfortunately, the one that I kept for myself, was stored in a friend's old barn while I've been away, and got infested with termites. For this Christmas, I've decided to build another for myself and one for my son, who is 5. I don't need to be told that he's too young, as I know my son well, and he is far from the average 5 year old in size, maturity, and experience. We've paddled quite a bit together already, camp out quite a lot and ridden many miles horseback through varying terrain, usually camping with the horses during the trip. He can also swim very well. My hope is that this build will be small enough for him to handle now, in very controlled conditions of course, but large enough that he won't outgrow it before his teenage years, possibly, this pirogue may even become a family keepsake that my grandkids may use someday. I'm aware of the potential of compromising something into oblivion and winding up with something totally useless and want to avoid this error myself.

Just figured that some of you much more experienced guys could offer me some advice on this one. For instance, I definitely think that the UJ 15' 6" pirogue is too long. I was also planning on building myself a new 12' with a flat back along with the one for my son. I was thinking that a 10 footer might be more suited to a kid, but, again, was hoping for some advice.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Kayak Jack]

My builds are canoe and kayaks, not pirogues. But I think I would reconsider trying to get one boat that will work for a mature 5 year old, and also would still satisfy an even more mature 12-14 year old. I'd go for two boats, thus giving two family heirlooms.
Other builders and paddlers may differ on this.

And, my hearty congratulations for your involvement with him; he is lucky, and so are you.

 

[tx river rat]

You are going to find the shorter boats dont paddle near a well as the longer boats.
One of my grandaughters was paddling at about that age.
My recommendation would be the 13 ft Laker froms Jems water craft.
I built one and it can be paddled by a small person up to my big ----- 200 lbs and is a sweet handling boat.
Ron
The boat the termites got was it coated with glass cloth and epoxy?

 

[oldsparkey]

A 13 Pirogue would do what you want but the 13 Laker would also work quite well. The Laker would be one boat he could use later down the road when he is bigger since a lot of adults are paddling them at 13 feet. It has a lot of advantages as to the different sizes of the person paddling it and the water it is paddled in.
http://www.jemwatercraft.com/Laker.php

The Pirogue ( I personally ) like the normal or longer length as an adult and especially when taking camping gear. The normal length or even with it stretched out a few more feet lets me get my stuff in it without being cramped like I would be in a shorter boat. Plus I like an open boat since it is so much easier to pack and unpack.

The main question is what boat does he like.

 

[beekeeper]

No advice, just food for thought.
If you build without fixed seats, and plan well one can nestle inside the other for transporting if you like.
Beam width for a 5yr. old will be a factor. Tumblehome sides or outside chine logs can help reduce it. You could consider lowering the sides some for him because he won't sink the boat very much now, and then add onto them later, if needed .
If your not in a hurry you could build your 12' one now and see how it works for him (and you). Then the second one could be made smaller for him or larger for you as desired.
I think 12' pirogues are tradionally considered one man ( standard small) boats. Under 12' are not as common. Seedtick or Keith will correct me if that is wrong.

He will enjoy whatever you build. Kids adapt very well.

My Granson and boat. He was 7 and not too big for his age. The boat is 14'- 8" OL X 28" beam, 10.5" sides if I recall correctly.

A curiosity question, please: why are you planning to build with a "flat back"?

beekeeper

 

[seedtick]

go to school and check how big and strong a five year old really is


build him a small boat - 18 - 20" bottom, 10' long that'll hold him 'till he gets up to 70 or 90 lb and won't wear him out trying to paddle it

it's got to be fun and not work or he won't want to do it

you wouldn't send him of hunting with a 12 ga auto so don't send him off in a boat that will fit an adult

 

[woodman]

http://www.boatdesigns.com/9-Kidyak-kid ... ducts/178/

9' long 22'' beam

 

[daniel77d]

Thanks to all of you for the advice. I am certain that this build will be a pirogue, and not a kayak, but I still appreciate the oppinions and links. I think that I will go ahead with a 12 footer and see how that works out, and plan the next build accordingly. I'll be sure to come back with pics and a report so ya'll can see if I'm all wet in my decision. Got to admit though that the 10" pirogue still appeals to me.

The build that got termite damage was just epoxyed at the seems and bottom, but not fully or clothed. The termited started from the inside and went out. Really the damage is ony severe in two places, but rather than attempt to patch it, I'd rather use the excuse to build another.

I'm wanting a flat back so that a trolling motor(probable) or small outboard (unlikely) could be put to use.

Thanks again guys.

 

[beekeeper]

Food for thought on transoms:
A wide transom at the floor will cause some turbulence that will reduce the efficiency of the hull somewhat (ie. paddle slower/harder) .
Some builders on here have recommended leaving the bottom (floor) narrow (2" to 3") to reduce this effect. I don't know if that will leave enough footprint to support the added weight of the motor and you sitting closer to the stern in order to operate it.
Deciding before you build, "paddle or troll motor?" may save you from building a compromised boat that could be better suited for your usage.
Clamp on motors can be mounted to the side of the boat and work fine. This option might work for you. The boat could be pointed for paddling and still work with a troll motor.
Don't forget the added weight of the battery. It will affect the trim, and load capacity of the boat.

Food for thought on 10' pirogue:
Build it. You know you want to. It will work fine. Give him your 12' one when he outgrows the 10'. You can build more. You know you want to.

beekeeper